"The Vanessa Show"

episode: 19 title: "Ep. 19 - "The Vanessa Show", com Rui Fernandes e Rita Rocha" pub_date: "Mon, 05 Aug 2024 05:00:00 +0000" original_language: english source_audio: "6f32b904.mp3"

Hello, welcome. I'm Rui and this is The Wegg Podcast. Good morning, welcome to... Good morning Vanessa, good morning. I don't know what this is. Good morning, welcome. Good morning, I have the mission of introducing these two wonderful people that I have here, who have two podcasts and they will introduce themselves one by one, as if we were at school. I would really like you to tell us your names, what is your podcast and where can people find you? You start, Rita. Very well, thank you Rui. I'm Rita, in the podcast about weddings I'm just Rita. And in other places I'm Rita Rocha and I'm a wedding photographer. And that's it, I've been in this wedding life for about 12 years and today we're all here together, yay! I love the nervousness, how confident we all are and suddenly, I have to introduce myself. Yes, we had about 20 minutes to talk before the recording, and suddenly we're all... And I'm Rui, I have The Wegg Podcast, which is a podcast made for the community, made for inside. Can you say what Wegg means? Wedding Artists Community, which is spectacular because it's for the Portuguese community. But as I said, I think it was with Carlos, in English I'm cooler. But it's all in Portuguese, except for the name and some guests. And some guests, exactly. But essentially that's it. We talk inside, we talk to the community, we talk about the problems we have, which I have many, several. Mental, so you know. Yes, I forget. And basically that's it. Except for, as Rita said, I'm a photographer, with Elsa, at Instante Fotografia, since 2010. It's been a great journey. We've met half a dozen cute, interesting people. Two of them are here. Rui, you and Elsa were one of the first people I met when I got married. And from then on, it was always improving. We have to start somewhere. Exactly. We were all here in the North, right? I want to do a little context, since this is just the beginning. So, Rui and Rita, which could be a romantic duo. Rui and Rita, each one has a podcast. Rita, this will always be my vision. Let's leave this disclaimer here. I'm a person with opinions, with visions, and you can think exactly the opposite. It's all good. Rita has a podcast, mostly with wedding professionals. The other day she had a fiancée and a photographer, who is here navigating in both areas. I'm not sure if she's already divorced. She's already divorced. Not yet. But you have one as a fiancé. Yes, yes, yes. I'm not sure if she's already divorced. She has to leave this one. Now I have to think of a better one. Rita, besides professionals, will also have a couple of fiancés, who will be a little out of the industry, that is, they don't work in it. Rita's podcast is more for couples, that is, she has the professional community talking to the couples. And Rui's podcast has the guests talking to the suppliers. And because they are in exactly the same area, because they go in two different directions, not opposites, which I don't think are opposites, they're just different. Basically, what's happening today is because I told them separately that they should invite each other, because I think both podcasts are very interesting together. I think both points of view are very interesting, because there were people who were in both, and what I heard, almost everyone, I didn't hear everyone, I'm sorry, I'm trying, but I didn't hear everyone, but I heard almost everyone. It's very interesting to hear how we turn, what we have to say to our partners, to our partners, to those who work with us, whether they're makeup artists, wedding planners, or celebrities, are some things, and what we have to say to our clients are others. That's why we're here, the three of us, I'm just here as a mono. Yes, and that's the formal reason, because you're really to blame for all of this. I had already thought about it, and I believe Reita could have thought about it too, but you were clearly that seed and driving force that made this happen. But that's the formal reason. The second reason is that you're doing the internship, and you can have the podcast, which is Vanessa's show. But my podcast will have to be live, because I don't want to edit. But it's all right. Because you don't like to edit. Do you think you edit a lot? I don't have time. I don't edit at all. I don't edit at all, really. You give it to the Ivo. But I don't have time. I do it live, you know? Chill. That's it, I think. At 11am, whoever wants to hear it is now. And then it's recorded, like it happened on Instagram. Vanessa, who are you? Tell people who are listening. Hi, I'm Vanessa. I don't know if you can see me, but I'm wearing amazing makeup today. I was praised by Elsa, and by Rita. Rui was behind me. He doesn't know what's going on. You were the first one to say you were super fancy. I forgot about the video. I was in a window with a lot of light. I put on makeup. I look different. I straightened my hair. I'm Vanessa. I'm part of Vanessa Ivo. Strange, right? It's the same name as me. I've been working in weddings for 12 years. I started by doing nothing. I used to upload on REC, as you've heard on some of our friends' podcasts. I uploaded on REC. Then on video. Then I became an assistant. Then I became a videographer. And now, in the last few years, I started photographing. And you stopped having friends. I stopped having friends. You stopped having life. And then, God knows, here I am. Vanessa, you were already invited here on the podcast about weddings. And on The Wack too, right? Yes. You were invited on both podcasts. So I think you have some merit to be here. That's why I thought it would be interesting if you did this together. Obviously, for a marketing strategy. To bring together audiences. But I think it's interesting to bring together audiences. Because I imagine, I imagine, no, I'm sure, that if Rui's audience wins a lot, there will probably be more suppliers who listen. And the guests who talk about how it is to deal directly with the client. And Rita's audience, which is turned to the clients, Rita's audience, we hope they are, in addition to suppliers, also clients, who listen to how the suppliers feel, what they think. That is, to make them a little more human. And not just a robot behind the email. So we don't just receive an email saying how are you doing for this day? And understand why the prices are the prices, what kind of service people have. And, on the contrary, the suppliers understand the concerns of the clients, why they get nervous, why they don't get nervous. I think it's very interesting, your two audiences. I don't know exactly, in our conversation on WhatsApp, which one of you said it, but I think, essentially, what we're doing is really public service. And while Rita does that public service, when you, as a fiancée, or as a fiancé, fall into this world, we, as suppliers, think you have to know everything. Because we've been there for 10, 15, or 2 years. We think you have to know everything that goes on. But they don't know, nor do they have the obligation to know. Because, fortunately, if they have their first and only marriage, they're going to fall into a reality that's completely different. And have this medium, as Rita proposes, where you start, even if it's just starting to navigate, to understand a little bit of what you have to ask, what you're supposed to expect from a certain supplier. I think that's great. And I think what I'm doing is public service, which is the opposite. Because it's bringing us together and saying, you're not alone. What you're going through, the pain you have, the difficulties you have, you're not alone. Because, even if it's... Sofia, Luis Maldonado said, Sofia was the first one, Sofia Ferreira, was the first guest I had. Because I really didn't want her to be a photographer. Because if a photographer had to interview a photographer, everyone would think it was a photography podcast. And André would have all the same merit that Sofia to be the first. But Sofia was the first because of that. Because the truth is that, whether you're a florist, whether you're a designer, whether you're a DJ, we go through a lot of the same pains. And, normally, we feel alone, especially in recent years. And I think that what we're doing, what you said at the beginning, I think we're deeply complementary. Before I went to talk to Susana, Esteves Pinto, who was Rita's first guest, I went to listen to the episode. Because I didn't want to do the same things, I didn't want to ask, but, at the same time, I wanted to know if there was anything you said that could be cool for me to explore and delve into. And it was spectacular. Clearly, I listened to that, and the 30 minutes, your episode has 40, 45 minutes, but the interview itself has 35 minutes, that seemed like 10 minutes to me. Literally, it seemed like 10 minutes, because you get involved, and it's super interesting. And then I talked to Susana. And then I talked to Susana, and you think, this has nothing to do with each other, it's the same person, and you have a series of completely different opinions, and completely different topics, but that's me. Exactly, exactly. And it will never be complete, no matter how much we do, both you and I, no matter how many people we have, and how many topics we interview, it will never be complete. I think it's just a part. And that was also the idea of the podcast. I know I'm not doing anything new, because teaching things to brides has already existed since there are brides, because there are blogs, because there are magazines, I felt that there was, in a way, some space for the podcast format. Let me ask you this question, Rita. Why do you think this format is so interesting, for you and in general? That's what I was going to say. I'm a big fan of podcasts. I listen to podcasts. Because I like to listen to the radio, I like to listen to the radio, I like to listen to a good debate, a good conversation on the radio, much more sometimes than music. I have moments in which I have to listen to voices, and other moments in which I have to listen to music. And I listen to a lot of podcasts. I learn a lot while I'm washing the dishes, taking care of the clothes, exercising, walking, driving. For example, I like to listen to conversations, and I feel that I learn a lot. And, as I was saying, I think that, in any case, there is already a lot of information for the newlyweds, for them to learn, in blogs, magazines, videos, YouTube, etc. But I feel that there wasn't this podcast version. And I thought there was space and that it could fit here in Portuguese. Speaking in Portuguese, I also thought this was important, because it exists in other languages, in English, and also in Brazilian. I follow a podcast for Brazilian newlyweds that inspires me, in a way. It inspired me to do this. And I thought, look, I'm going to do this. And because I would like to reach other people, and I also feel, and you already talked a little bit about people to whom I communicate, it's mostly for newlyweds, but I also want to reach other suppliers that are not our direct community, not those that I already know, those with whom I meet, in the venues where I go, in the jobs I do, those that I would never find, those venues where I probably never go, that florist, that designer of dresses, whatever, there are all areas, that maybe I would never find and somehow reach them through the podcast. It's spectacular. With multiple sides. Because I feel I needed that a little bit. I completely agree with everything you say in your episodes, I've heard them all. I heard the last one last night, exactly, last night, about therapy, emotions, the state of emotions, etc. But, and I agree with what you say that we were much closer, I feel we were closer, we were in a group, in common, we were interviewed here a few years ago, on Facebook, where we exchanged a lot of ideas and opinions, I feel that somehow we were a little bit apart, but I needed a lot more, I needed to reach a lot of other people, and it was a little bit like that. Since you are bringing together some people from the community, I wanted to reach a lot of others and I think that this format that we are doing today, specifically, will, in a certain way, It's Vanessa's show, it's Vanessa's show. I wanted to ask you, each of you, what feedback, I mean, what feedback have you received and if it was what you were expecting from your podcasts? Can I? I'll give you a quick introduction and then I'll give you an example. Sorry, let me just add, what feedback have you received and how is this going to change your next season? Ok. What I was saying, and I'll make the connection, this was a deeply selfish thing on my part. As I said, I really needed to talk to people. This, once again, started because of you and because of Ivo, Vanessa. Completely by chance, I think I told you this story, I was always with Ivo, we have the same barber, and I was coming in at 10, he left at 9, two fights, and I said, we have to have lunch, and Paulinho, the barber, said, leave those fights, no one ever scores anything. We scored, the next week we were having lunch together, my head exploded talking to these two, and a seed, a brutal thing in my life, in my profession, but it's just starting, and it's great. And I realized, more than in any other phase, that I really needed to be with the people that understand my profession. In the pandemic I closed a lot, I think we all closed in a way, and because of work I had a hard time getting out of that small bubble, and I felt, it was the proof, being with you, that it was the proof that I needed to be with people that understand our two professionals, our amazing friends, but if I have a friend that works in a bank, he has different problems than me, and even if a person tries to empathize, it's not the same thing, and that's what I felt with you, and the idea of the podcast was in the drawer, because I didn't have a theme yet, I didn't know what to do, but I think I have some things to ask, and when I realized, ok, it's the weddings, it went that way, and I started to join the group. To Rita's audience, to the grooms that are listening to us, the wedding organizers have a very lonely life, it seems that we are always partying, and having fun, but when we are at work, we are alone, we are all alone. That's exactly where I will answer your question. To add to that, Rui, sorry to interrupt you both, Elsa once, and it was Elsa, curiously, your wife Rui, who said once, and in fact, we don't work like that, in fact, counting the 360 days of the year, we don't get married that many times a year, some of us only get married 10, 20, 30 times, we have different numbers here, there are people who are 50, 80, 100, but in fact, we don't get married that many times, every other day we are alone, managing clients. We don't work in a company where we enter, we get the point, and we have, I don't know, 10, 15, 20 jobs. And that's where I was going to get to, because when I started this, it was for me, I need to talk to people. So, as you say, Rita, I gathered my friends that I hadn't seen in a long time, that I hadn't talked to in a long time, but I knew from the beginning that I was going to start with these people, because I don't have a way to do this, so let me talk to those that I know and then I realized, from the beginning, that I was going to have to take a few steps, and then, meanwhile, I already talked to a lot of people that I didn't know at all, and some people that I didn't know beyond work, and that's why I said it's spectacular to get out of the bubble, because getting to know truly people where you are one hour and a half talking to them in an intentional way is spectacular and for me it has been profoundly incredible. This was the beginning. Why did I do this? It's this reason. I also knew that I was going to have a lot of followers because, naturally, people were going to feel the same as me. I had no idea of the size, because you don't need a lot, I don't have thousands of followers, I don't have thousands of views, I don't even need it. But you were always saying you were going to have 7 or 20. To be honest, I used to play with 7 in the first episodes, but I thought I was going to have 20 or 30. And at the end of 4 episodes I had 70 followers and 200 streams. And I thought, thanks to this, a lot of people are going through the same thing as me. And even on Tuesday, we were at the conference, and I received this message. Now that he is using his live time to open the message, on his phone. I thought you were going to ask me. At what conference were you talking? At Shootfest. I didn't know you were there. Yes, I was. But where are you? We are distracting him. I'm not going to tell you. Because of the person's privacy, I'm not going to tell you who it was. But I'm going to read the message in the entire section of the name. Just a little message, thanks to Wack, for the guys like me who work alone. These moments are important. In the episode with Carlos, I realized that on a psychological level you have a special pleasure to start things and projects. There is almost a need to do it. And how can I relate to you? A tough topic for the episode was to address the isolation of many professionals, especially those who work alone and not in pairs or in a studio with colleagues. I had to get help from a psychologist and it was a great help. Thank you and good work. In the week, he hadn't heard it yet, it was in the week of this episode that you talked about, the one we're recording, with a therapist, because when you receive this, it's literally that feeling, man, I think and I'm really happy that somehow, whatever it is, we can be with each other, that's what I feel. I force myself to be doing these conversations because I feel that I'm forcing myself to meet people and have this company, and the feeling, the possibility of being with someone who's going through this isolation, for me it's in my heart, to feel that there's a reality, man, it was something I wasn't expecting, I wasn't really expecting it to be in my heart. And now, what feedback like that, and another one that you received, what will make you change for the next season, podcast season? One simple thing, which is what I was talking to you about at the beginning, one simple thing, which is that I have to pass this on to personal interviews. It's going to be brutal logistics, it's going to be a huge investment, but the video call... What do you mean by that? It has to be a face-to-face interview, not personal, face-to-face, because the video call really makes logistics a lot easier. In your format, it makes sense. And it's going to be brutal, I'm going to have to make a series of investments, essentially a lot of time investment, but I really need it, I think it makes perfect sense, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to shake my legs... And can you read people's bodies? It's different, more than anything, I'm going to tell you the main reason. It's that you're not affected by any possible technological breakdowns. You have a slow internet, you don't even need to talk about breakdowns, I've had them and it was annoying. But language delays, you have a scene where you miss a word, you don't have the possibility of... I felt that in some of them when editing, after the genre, and I didn't realize that this person said this. If I didn't realize it at the time, why didn't I go deeper? And I need to have that connection in the next step. For me, it's really for me. And I think it makes sense for those who listen to me. And you, Rita? I get a lot of inspiration from the conversations and from what you were saying. I feel that too, Rui, that sometimes when I'm editing and listening, I think, I didn't go deep on this topic. Or the person said this and I let it pass because I was reading or looking at the next question. But I'm taking notes and I have a list of things I want to talk about. And I'm always looking for the right person to talk about this. Feedback, Vanessa. I've had good feedback. It's difficult for people to send me messages saying, you were terrible at this thing. Usually when they send me messages, it's to say good things. To be good people. I would also like them to tell me, you failed here or it wasn't cool, or you didn't make a good comment. Maybe you're missing this part. Do that. Don't be afraid. I'm not that person. But seriously, for everything, in everything, always, I like it when people correct me. I know people who say, I hate it when people tell me I said something wrong, or I said something wrong. No, I like it when people correct me. I like it when they tell me there's a scene between my teeth when I'm eating, so I don't make that face. I like it when people tell me I said a verb wrong, or a word wrong. And I like it when they tell me, Rita, it's not cool, you're not letting people speak. These are things I'm afraid of. I hope they tell me, and tell me what I need to improve and what they would like to hear. But above all, the feedback I've had is that there was space and thank you, thank you. Especially brides, which has been very cool, more brides than brides, but I also have some brides, who feel they learn a lot more, who are much more conscious, who will select much more carefully their suppliers, because now they've realized certain things that they didn't know, that passed them by and they had no idea. And you know, and those who are listening to us, who are in the wedding area, know that this is transversal. We hear all our clients say, I had no idea, I never got married. This is one of the first things we hear. And we hear in the end, it's like you took a course, it's like you did a training. That's why, and you know it's true, a lot of brides think that at a certain point they are ready to enter the wedding planning world and become wedding planners. This happens to us, because they feel they've learned so much about a new area, a new universe, a new world, that maybe I could take a course or do a training or start working on this. And I feel there's a lot to do, and I don't know if I'm going to stop the continuity of my episodes. I prepared myself not to do seasons, I prepared myself for this to be continuous, as long as I feel like it, as long as I can. I left this disclaimer right in the first episode, that I'm going to do what I can, I'm going to do what I can, otherwise I wouldn't even have started. I'm a very professional and it took me a long time to start and I'm going to do what I can. As long as I can, I'm going to do it. There probably won't be seasons, but what I want to improve and what I want to change is to get closer to people and make them realize that if they want to do something good and with good results and humanly approvable, that they should learn something about the suppliers, about the environment, so that they don't regret it later, because we have this feedback that if I had known today, I would have done it differently. I hope to get closer to people who care and want to treat their suppliers well and make good parties for their guests. We also have a lot of guests who can eventually listen to us because I know that there are people who send us messages saying that they heard about Damas do Nouro and they will send it to their friends. We can also train people who go to weddings and live better and better this reality of weddings. Madam Moderator, let me interrupt your show and ask two questions to Rita. The first one is do you feel that you have a greater diversity of suppliers in your episodes? And do you feel that there is an appreciation for a series of areas that you are including and that you are giving voice to? Do you feel that gratitude from people? Photographers get together and videographers we let them come. It is very unusual to have a lot of catering and a lot of ceremonialists. Do you feel that appreciation for the place of speech that you are giving them? I feel that people say the other suppliers who are not photographers and videographers say that they don't have this opportunity of community. They don't have this opportunity of talking to each other. Now, the wedding planners because they are growing a lot and there was a meeting here in Portugal they already start communicating but one of the things that Jenny said in one of the first episodes is that we don't talk in community and the other suppliers also don't. I thought a little about what this conversation could be. We didn't prepare much. What do you mean? Vanessa has three pages written. Go with the flow. But I felt that I would like the conversation to go through the need that I feel that exists in Portugal and that already happens in other countries which is to aggregate in some way the services and suppliers of weddings in some way organized. Because there is in the same way that we have lawyers and nurses and that there is even an association of photographers and videographers of weddings in Portugal there is no association, group community whatever you want to call it of suppliers of wedding services. If this existed people could meet at some point. And this is the feedback that I have from other suppliers that are not photography and video that I do and end up dealing more with these people is that there is a lack of community What I really feel is that even in your case that you talk to the grooms it is very easy for a photographer or videographer because you are technical to create a channel that will reach people but it is much more difficult for a cake designer the makeup artists also by nature become very active in practice, but you have many services that do not have that technical ease and then end up having much less room for speech and I think that is one of the things you are doing in a brilliant way because you are bringing and giving room for speech not only for the other suppliers that hear it may not be exactly for the community but it is cool to hear what other people are saying to their grooms that in the end will be ours too. Sorry Rui, sorry you do not consider that in fact I have not been here for so long the industry already exists there are weddings since always but you do not think that we are at a point we are not realizing it but maybe these last years and maybe the next 10 are a turning point I will be a turning point because the aggregation of several suppliers happens in fairs where basically each individual person is trying to sell their service and that is it and maybe our generation and the younger generation maybe also feels because maybe it was educated in a different way that actually in the union we are stronger because what we like to play and sometimes to be bad to say the old guard is very individual in my opinion this can be seen even on the wedding day all the suppliers that make a wedding happen from the person who cleans the space the person who serves the person who decorates the person who plans everything the photographer, videographer we do not work as a team we are each doing their job and I feel that maybe in a short time maybe in 10 years we are all here for this and it does not happen many times maybe we only had this aggregation we did not have fairs we did not have space for lectures exactly it was only promotional this podcast Rui, you were putting the technical part you both have a wedding podcast and we still have space for more even because the couples have an interest in it the couples have an interest in that the teams the different suppliers work together for them it was their interest what happens happens in a very organic way fortunately I do not have bad cases I do not have bad experiences with colleagues but I have the normal ones and a series of other guys that we work together and become friends really friends this does not always happen it is not so easy we as photographers and videographers we have a lot of difficulty in creating a close friendship with the church musicians because it is a place where we go there is a lot of important things happening at that moment we exchange two or three technical words and sometimes with a guy that does ceremonies who is not a priest we do not have that facility to create the connection but it is supposed to exist and I think these are the things and what is the problem? we live a series of things at this moment in terms of society we live a disaggregation we live a polarization and we live a time limitation you communicate for 30 seconds on reel with a 100 or 140 characters and for me what the podcast brought was time one of the first podcasts I listened to and I listened to a lot was Joe Rogan that does not have any kind of structure we start talking and you talk about whatever you want and it is three hours and I can not listen to it all the time because it is three hours and I do not have three continuous hours to listen I would like it to be a little more but he does clips of five minutes at each time but at this time I realized that I do not want to do more than an hour or an hour and a half because I think it is a cool time for everyone to be able to follow but it is an hour to talk to a person just a person, intentionally and I think that in social terms we lose a lot and for me it works because of that and as I said before it is useful for me and it is useful for other people because I do not want mediatisms I do not want superficialities I want to meet people and what you are doing Rita is a bit of that you are showing the grooms you are giving that part of the community to the grooms because you are inviting people you are meeting people and we are telling everyone we are not alone here yesterday in the conferences we were talking about this there are people that normally do not have space when I was talking to Alexandra from Parharita I was asking her because I already knew the answer but I was asking her do you usually have people from the area? and she said no she invites people and when someone remembers to take a picture and send it to her I think it is a question of going because you have the opportunity to be with people and the question is this I still did not have the variety because I did not do as many episodes as you and I want to try to create that variety of people but what I feel in some cases is this and I think at this point what you are doing is when you put that different crowd of photographers, videographers they will have a little more space when you put others you are bringing their importance to the day you had a second question Rui, do you remember? yes, I had but this is a more technical question I was going to ask you Rita I will give you a context almost everyone I talk to tells me that they did not hear my episode and I would like to say the same and I would like to say the same but I have to listen to myself and there is a problem and my question to you is I really felt people in a very nice way have told me that I have a way for this I do not have, but I think I'm keeping something but why? because I listened and there were two or three things that I happened to hear and I thought it was terrible and every time I wanted to do something I tried to do it differently it happened a lot in the first four the four that I recorded it was not the chronological but it was Sofia, Ferreira André, Vanessa, Ivo and Jenny it was all in a row I recorded these four or five before I started editing so I felt a big difference I was full of fear I could not speak I did a big alignment I prepared 21 questions for Sofia and then I realized that if I did 21 questions I would be there for four hours especially with someone who has so much to say and to share with Sofia but when I listened this happened a lot with André specifically when I listened to the edition I thought I did not hear what he was saying why did not I hear at the time what he was saying? I was so focused on technical issues around here that I could not get involved even in the conversation because there was so much more interesting to go deeper than looking at my alignment that now I try not to do you can always come back I have your ear to say that when we come back here in our next conversation I really feel that because it really has to be because it happened a lot with Ana Luisa I did some questions in alignment I did the first one I realized that they deviated the subject but my question is as a person if I have to learn to listen and shut up do a question and shut up did you feel some of these questions or are you a more decent person right from the start? I said a little that sometimes let me know if I have spoken more sometimes I am afraid but I will be honest I think I have things to say I want to say things for my learning for what I see happening and I feel I am remembering now the last episode I edited that will be out next week I mean, when you see this it's already out it doesn't matter we are here it's a funny exercise I was editing one of the episodes and there is a lot I wanted to say that when brides arrive at the altar it seems that they want to free the altar be it religious, civil or whatever it seems that they want to free the bouquet and they send the bouquet and there is a lot I needed to say as a photographer stay a little longer with the bouquet because I want to take that picture where you are standing with the bouquet in your hand sitting with the bride with the bouquet on her lap and I needed to say this and I was talking to a wedding planner and she was saying how to do it I thank her as a photographer, I don't have to get a dress or ask someone, she's doing that service, and then I ask her, what do you think when the bride arrives at the altar, what should she do to the bouquet? And she replied, that she thinks the bride should do what she wants. And I have the need to add, because I feel I need to give tips and say things, so I have the need to say, and don't think that if she stayed in the first minutes with the bouquet, she could give opportunity to the photography and the video, to make images, details, etc. And she said, this is very interesting, I had never thought about the perspective of photography, and indeed, maybe I will start giving this tip to my brides. This to say what? That sometimes I like to hear, and I'm afraid to talk more, but I also feel I can have important tips to give to brides, and eventually to some suppliers, for the work of each other, because here I will be valuing the florist, for example. And I'm not as afraid as you. There's a difference. You're talking in a position of... Talking to the bride. And I'm sorry, I always try to turn this into a tip. Maybe I do this, and you've heard some episodes, but I always say, let's turn this into a tip, and try to highlight and underline, make an underline in that conversation, and say, look, this is a tip. Brides, take note, when you get to the altar, don't give the bouquet right away, so we can make some images of it. The difference is, as I'm interviewing, you're interviewing people in a way, with your knowledge and an authority perspective. I've always invited people much better than me, because I'm a fool, asking questions, saying, let me talk, who knows, shut up and listen. That's not it, that's not it. It's a bit what I feel. But it's not, Rui. I feel that your podcast is much more introspective. It's much more about thinking, not so much about basic tips, like, today we learned this from this episode. Your podcast is more about letting people go, and protecting them in a certain way, and letting out what's inside them. Yes, my vulnerability. Exactly, and discovering things while they're talking. Because I feel that conversation brings a lot of that. We learn a lot about ourselves, when we allow ourselves to talk. To talk with time, that's it. Exactly, exactly. And I think your podcast is a bit like that, allowing people to talk, and maybe that's why you feel that. You feel that, in a way, you can be occupying a space for conversation, because when you interrupt with questions, you're breaking a line of reasoning. But I think you're doing very well, and you're giving a lot of space for conversation. Thank you, I'm happy. But the reality is this, if I had to pay for mentoring everyone, and if I had to pay for therapy, I didn't have money. That's why I made a podcast. Look, I wanted to ask you, now that you've spoken to a lot of people, and a lot of different people, as Rui was saying, now that we're in July, I won't say the day to ruin everything, but we're in July, for us wedding planners, it's more or less, more or less, the middle of the season, more or less. It's at least the middle of summer. Do you think you've changed the way you work? So, when you're working now, you're both photographers, you have Instante Fotografia and Rita Rocha. I don't know if your thing is Rita Rocha Fotografia. On the website it's just Rita Rocha, on Instagram it's Rita Rocha Fotografia. Rita Rocha and Instante Fotografia. Do you feel like you've changed anything, now that you're working? Start with you, Rita. I've received feedback from the suppliers where I go, and from the places where I go, and from the people with Cape Cruz. I'm saying this feedback is from other suppliers. I was saying, you, in your work. Yes, but I've received feedback, and this is complemented. I'll give you an example. The other day I went to a venue, and the person who was in charge of the venue, they weren't the owners, but the person who receives the brides, who receives the suppliers, who tells them where to sit, said, I'm listening to your podcast, the other day I thought it was funny to talk about this and that, and taking that into account, I made a change. What do you think? It was very positive. It had to do with, in my case, as a photographer, I felt the need to talk about where the light is, and how the sun shines on a ceremony, depending on the time, and the person clearly realized that the light was a bit dim during the ceremony, and decided to slightly change the arrangement, so that the guests all had a more uniform light, during the ceremony, the symbolic ceremony, on Thursday. And there it is. I only mentioned one person, one example, but if this starts to reach all the colleagues, we'll all be much better. And this will obviously facilitate our work, and will improve the lives of the clients, and the lives of the brides, so, in a way, I still don't have... I haven't reached as many people as this, Vanessa, to be able to answer your question in a richer way, but I have this example that I think could be the first step to really have a good result. And when you're photographing, or when you're dealing with a client, is there anything you've done differently? Did you think, I'm going to do this because that person told me... I'm constantly, yes, I'm constantly learning things, and improving, and correcting. I remember, we had, Vanessa, you and I, as UAU, we have a community together, I remember a conversation we had last year, where we heard Marlene Vinha, and Marlene said, please, as a makeup artist, be sensitive, photographers and other producers, when you get to the place where the bride is getting ready, and you realize if it's the best time to distract and talk to her, because we can be in an exercise of eyeliner, or necklace, eyelashes, etc, and maybe it's not the best time to interrupt. I, by chance, have some sensibility, but this made me rethink even more, and be even more careful, and obviously, as a professional, I'm constantly learning each of my episodes. She also said, I'm also careful, maybe because we're people who like to put on makeup, and maybe we think more about it, but I also remember her saying she was the sponge between the nerves, and the bad mood of other people, and that she had to be in a total state of calm and happiness with the person she was putting on makeup. And Jenny also says that, and I already said that, that she has to create a zen moment, because it's the mood that the clients will have for the rest of the day, in this case, the bride, the mood, the energy they insert in that moment is what will be missing many of the following hours. And in a very practical way, they need the person to be still, often with their eyes closed, not making wrinkles, as they say, wrinkle their face, that they are still, calm, because in a practical way they need the person to be still, and calm, and I also remember her saying I'm a sponge, I have to absorb the bad that comes and say, it's all good, you have time. That's why we also have this thing that makeup artists are always very calm, they have to be calm. We have to get a little more... I wanted to say something and I didn't want to stop saying that I feel, and when I was saying that I like to be corrected and I'm not afraid to be told that I'm not doing this right, or I'm also not afraid to point out mistakes and say, we're doing this wrong, this is not good, we shouldn't do this. I still feel that many of the people that I've invited, that I've interviewed, can't be completely honest, making little complaints, telling their pain and their fears, trying to be politically correct. This is very difficult, it's very difficult for you to tell people that you can't have employees running from one side to the other while someone is making a speech, you can't raise dishes during the speech, it's very difficult for you to say this. You think like this, maybe this can be a potential collaborator, someone I can collaborate with in the future, and maybe if I say this, this person will never call me to work there, or won't like me when I'm working there. And this for everyone else, and I gave this example, but for all the other suppliers. For example, I interviewed the hairdresser, Pedro Neff, and Pedro was saying, don't take me wrong, but I would like to say that... Some people... Because you're always afraid of offering subjectivity and someone taking that to heart, or thinking the message is directly for them. And I think there are things that are sometimes overshadowed by that. Just to make a parenthesis to that, I also think it's necessary, I think the whole industry needed to get to know the world. Yesterday I was analysing, because there are a lot of pages and a lot of information, a planning of an American wedding planner, and I have it written during the speeches, like, there's no dish-washing, there's no... Like, she didn't need to write it. Katerin already knew. That's written, she didn't need to write it. I've also seen wedding planners who, as they know it can go wrong, they go to the kitchen door and put their hand in. And I, as a photographer, I feel like I still have, and because I work with a video team, photography can make a difference, a person or another can appear in the background, but in terms of sound, it doesn't affect me that much. But as a photographer who works with videographers, I feel like I have to say to the head of the room, look, I'm sure they won't put the cutlery or whatever on the dishes during the speeches. And you're thinking in a way, in a visual way, for those of you who are making videos, and in a sound way. We're talking about the experience of the guest and the groom, who are listening to someone who likes to say beautiful things and funny things, and suddenly hands appear in front of them, and they go clink, clink, clink, clink, clink. Ah, but he didn't have... It's an experience. Why do you put wine on the groom while he's crying and his father is talking to him, and you put wine? Ah, but the glass always has to be full. I was expecting a little more, there was a lack of sensitivity. But the catering, for example, I'm going to be burned by this, for sure. It's a bit of this fear we all have. The catering, whoever is in front, whoever works in a restaurant, and I've worked in a restaurant, I've worked in a restaurant, serving, and then I had to... It doesn't matter. You have this training, you can have this training outside, and this training, I don't want to say you don't get up, just like us, I don't remember anything now, but there's something that you have to serve on the left, you can't put your hands in front of the client's face, there's also this training that doesn't go to our venues. And I'm going to cut here, it's going to be like this, I'm going to cut here because this is not the subject, because I wanted Rui to tell me, with all the people you talked to, what has changed in your way of working this season? Let me just say a parenthesis. Let's not cut, sorry. I fully agree with everything you're saying, I think it's the same, there are people with more sensibility than others, there are people who more easily try to empathize with the rest of the crowd, there are things that you will learn with experience, the speeches, for me, the way I see it, as a photographer, speeches are worth very little. I know this is much more important for the video guy, who is recording, but essentially the audio part will be more important. But when there's a speech, I go, take half a dozen pictures, and sit on the floor, usually. If someone gets up and starts crying, or something truly extraordinary happens, I put them on a table. I'm there, I'm ready. I recorded a speech, this person is talking, two or three plates on each side, and everything is fine, then I sit down. If something happens, I don't need to be always photographing, because it's always the same picture. It's not important for me, it's important for the video guy. Actually, it's important for the grooms. Exactly, but this is a big part of your work. Technically, it's important for the video, because I want to deliver a good final product. But let's go back to the same thing, I think this, look, this won't change anything, someone has already said yes, the wedding, if it's seen as a show, if you look at the wedding as a show, you don't have things happening on purpose. Especially in the theater. In the theater, you don't come in after 10 minutes. You have 10 minutes of silence, you don't come in, you don't go. You're an actor, and you don't decide, now I'm going to take this glass, because I feel like it, because it's bad here. No, your character. Everything has its moment, it's studied and rehearsed. Yes, but even in the matter of service, in the theater, I don't know, it's different, because nothing interferes. Yes, yes, I said show, but a live show. Be it a theater or a concert. In the theater, if it's at 3, they give you until 3.10. From there, you close the door, you pay the ticket, but you don't come in, you don't go, I don't want to know. Why? Because people are there, they know it's a show, which can interfere. This issue of speech and all that, it can interfere. It's just stupid. If you stop to think, you make the decision. It's normal, I'm going to do this in two minutes. But let me also go against in other situations, in content, curiously, someone talked about it, which is sometimes the lack of sensitivity that we have, as photographers and videographers who record what happens, to do the simple thing, and I'm guilty of this many times, that the head of the room comes to me and says, look, the dessert table is ready. I'm an artist. I have the habit of being an artist. And then we don't know. As there is no conversation, by the way, I sent you what I saw yesterday, André said the same thing, but I think I had heard that a few years ago. Why do they call us to do photography? Exactly. I think there is a good way to do it and there is a bad way to do it. There is education and there is a lack of education. But apart from that, if there is this conversation between areas, you will realize that they have a pain that we don't have, or we don't have a good collage. We don't have that cake that we agreed on. And what they needed was someone who ... It doesn't have to be an artistic photography. It's just saying, record this for me, because I have this as security. I have already received this feedback from the caterers. Someone told me a few years ago. And sometimes they are just proud. Exactly. Because sometimes when they come to call, they are really happy with the table they just set up. Yes. There are many decisions that ... There are decorations, there are fabrics, there are flowers, what cups were used. Even the customers sometimes escape this. But the customers decided if they wanted porcelain, if they wanted metals, if they wanted silver. And maybe it makes some sense if there is artistic recording. Yes. Because the product can also be photographed. There is supposed to be an empathy among all people. A few days ago I did a baptism in which one of the priests, I was alone, I'm always afraid of approaching many things. I don't like to interfere. But one of the priests said, come here, go ahead. This one understands the importance of what I am doing. That's all. Then you have others who put the paints for you and send you there. Of course. When you talk, with the intention of listening, things change. When we are just sending messages because we want it to come out of our heads, from then on, no. But when you create the conversation, something comes out of it. To answer your question, Vanessa. That goes in the alignment of what we are talking about. Yes. Naturally, this is one of those points where you feel the difference of podcasts, and I think this is also an interest, Rita's tips are extremely practical. They are extremely important for the day of the wedding, for what is going to happen. I am a different person today than I was four months ago. Brutally different. For many things in personal terms, as a person, as a father, as a husband, as a person who is trying to navigate this life with a balance. Failing, but trying. Sorry, I read something today. Don't forget, please. The two of you have already talked about this, about failing. I read something today that applies perfectly. I wanted to tell Rita a little bit, but I forgot. Failing in the United States is seen as a curriculum. It's part of your curriculum. Failing in Portugal is a registration. Let me not correct myself. That's why we're going to bring... You're failing, but it's part of it. Yes, but let me say, I could have the perception... I didn't want to say that you were failing. No, no, no. There are two or three videos, because what I'm saying is that the United States are also starting to look at it this way. I shared this once on Ack's Instagram. It was a conversation with George Clooney, in which he said, you learn nothing from success, you learn everything from failure. And it's all right. He's one of the people who started saying this. There's an interview with Ed Sheeran, in several places, but there's one with Howard Stern, in which Howard Stern asks him, but you always knew how to sing, but you were always talented. And he says, no, no, no. And he pulls out a scene that he still has on YouTube and says, this is me when I was 14. And Howard Stern says, oh, that's terrible. And he says, this is me when I was 14, when I was 18, I recorded A Team and success started. In four years I learned. And then Ed Sheeran says, I'm annoyed by this culture of success and of hiding the failures, because you learn nothing from success, you learn everything from failure. This is just to tell you about the culture. They are navigating a little bit, but I completely agree with you. You learn nothing from success. I really think so. You can do something, you just realized what you could do. It's not with me, it's with Jorge Cluney. Exactly. You learn only with failures. You only learn with failures. Now, we were used to... You see this in a school exam. If you have a right question, it can be luck. If you have a right question, you won't talk only to her. Your teacher won't tell you... It's true, there's no more conversation. If you have a wrong question, your teacher will say, but you don't know, why don't you know? And you'll start to know that. You may have got it right by chance. In our case, I'm going to send a spectacular flash, an incredible photo. I didn't learn anything, it went well. But if I fail, you'll say, but why did I fail? Failure starts with a question. And the answers come next. So I think it's the same culture, that we really have to embrace. To fail constantly. I'm completely guilty of this. I postponed the podcast for months, because I wanted to do this with a Joe Rogan production. And then I realized, it's not going to happen. So we're going to get rid of it, and then the road goes on. And answering your question, it's exactly this question. I'm a different person. Every time I talk to one of those amazing people I've talked to, I feel this. The way I, in my day-to-day life, I deal with my kids, now I have João looking at me to see if he can pass by, so I don't make noise. The way I deal with them, the way I deal with them, whether at home or at work. And the way I get to the day of the wedding, or when I approach a couple in a reunion, everything changes. I don't know if I can say a practical point, but I felt myself change completely. Maybe in practical terms, a change that I can tell you is refreshing the idea that everything you're doing there matters a lot. Getting to the day of the wedding, today, at the end of 14 years of this, I arrive with much more enthusiasm today than maybe 2 or 3 or 5 years ago. And it's that refreshment, first of all. I have a lot of cool people here, I have the best job in the world. It has difficulties, it has drama, it has a lot of things, right? It has difficulties, but it's the best in the world. But I have an amazing team of people there, even if I don't know them, from now on it's going to be cool. And that need was a big change that I was losing completely. We've already talked about this, you know that, right Vanessa? But I was, a year or two ago, I was one step away from weddings. And because I started talking to these people, realizing that my pain wasn't just what I had, my difficulties weren't just what I had, helped me a lot to understand reality, to understand humanity. Because you put, once again, I don't know if I talked to you, but I talked to André and Ivo about Olympus. You put people in Olympus and suddenly you think that everything they do is completely out of your reality. A funny thing with André, it's André Teixeira, as you say, it's André Teixeira. It's André Teixeira. You think, André... I just love being praised by him. Obviously, right? And he kept thinking, why did I pay him? She paid me, so... It's an impressive business deal. I feel like this is all a private joke that I'm... There's a clip, there's a clip. There's a clip that Rui released, it's the biggest pride of my life. I'm not even hired, I'm invited by André Teixeira. She said that in the clip. To go work with him. And when he told me, look, you pay me 5,000 euros. This, Rui, because you publish it on your Instagram, your podcast, small clips. I started, but then I can't do everything. It's hard, that's the hard part. We have another life, exactly. I don't want to monopolize this. André is on Olympus. To me, everyone who's been on the podcast talks about Branco Prato. Yesterday, on the two days of Shootfest, everyone talks about Branco Prato. It's almost a fanfest. For them, I believe it's extremely... There's a lot of gratitude, but I believe it's... To Enervante, to Fogo, to Parimba Colar... But no, no, no. But we really look alike. Yes, yes. They're irreplaceable. A while ago, I went to the studio and asked André how he did the back-up. He's a normal person doing back-ups. I thought he had a scene... I thought he had half of Google to save his scenes, and that he had a private plane that sends his rolls to the changing room. Rui, I'm going to tell you one I saw last year, and it had a heart attack. He takes several cameras to the wedding day, and I don't remember which one, but he opens the cameras, and there are two slots, and there was one card. I was having a bad time. I looked at him and said, please tell me you're going to put another card there. And he said, why me? It was one of the cameras, I think the others had one, but that specific camera only had one card. And I was having a heart attack. It's like school, Vanessa. And sometimes it's not rolling. And sometimes it's not rolling. That was his answer, and he's right, but the slot was there alone. Yes. I needed a card, I was going to be left alone. But just to finish, sometimes you think everyone around you is better than you 10 times, and you realize we all have our struggles. They are, they will always be. Yes, yes, what I feel now is that they are leading the way. And it changed my perspective completely. André and Sofia are leading the way. They are not at their peak yet, because their path is, there is someone who is in a different way, or there is something they want to achieve. Their goals are different, yes. They still have a long way to go, and I look at my path, and I see a lot of people in front of me, and they are showing me, that idea of, there are a lot of people doing amazing work, there are a lot of people earning incredible values, but they are out there. No, these cronies are in Guimarães, next to me, there is no excuse. They did it, so I can't blame myself for being here. No, they did it. So I have to look, inspire myself, and say, I have to do it too. You, in this case for me, were the shift of a limitation I had. And I think we all ended up, facing each other, facing limitations. And for me, this was the great learning, that I have in everything. We are all on our own path, there are those who are ahead, there are those who are ahead, there are things to learn from everyone. But I felt like a different person, since I started the podcast, I am a different person. I don't know if it's for the best, but these are other 500. I hope this is a clip for Instagram. It's too big. I have a question for André Teixeira. I even wrote it down, because he asks this question. Why should the conferences in Portugal, the conferences about marriage, why should the conferences in Portugal invite the speakers to your podcasts, and why should it be me? Wait, I didn't understand. Why should the conferences about marriage in Portugal invite the speakers to your podcasts, and why should it be me? I didn't understand, sorry. Why should the conferences about marriage in Portugal invite the speakers to your podcasts, and why should it be me? Why should the conferences about marriage in Portugal invite the speakers to your podcasts, and why should it be me? He did a... It's André. Once again, André suffered from something I can't understand. Those who don't know them think they are inaccessible and snobbish, and there are few people I know who are more accessible, kind, and it's unbelievable how the market is so small in Portugal and I still believe in such stupidity. But there is a great moment when Jasmine and Sofia are on stage and André makes a question and I asked him about his work with Jasmine and he said Jasmine, first, a question that I think everyone should know which is, what is your favorite photographer and second, why is André Teixeira? You see? I knew it! It's André, my man. But in his case he can say I'm joking and it's true. I was joking, but why should the conferences about marriage in Portugal invite the speakers? Besides you, because you are already at this pace of being able to talk why should they invite the people who go to your podcasts to the conferences? I'll start with you. You're touching a wound. A wound? Tell me. Look, we've had Vanessa, once again I'll start with you. We've often had the debate about how commonplace are the speakers at the conferences that take place in Portugal. How they are always the same and I'm talking specifically about the male, because many years ago there were no women in the panels. They continue and I'm sorry I'm going to be bad with the tape. Let me just make the parenthesis because this parenthesis is going to appear. The women who appeared in the panels were going to talk about babies. Normally, yes. Maternity and newborn. In this case in photography. Or they were part of duos as is your case, as is the case of Elsa, of Mulher do Rui and others we have here. Fortunately, women start to appear as guests. Even if it's obviously because we need to have women in the panels and we have to find some people some women to enter here. They continue to be in a very different number and I think this, to be fair it's the same. There are equal numbers and there are people doing this work. I try to do this exercise and I know Rui does it and has done it, which is to always have alternate male and female and try to have both genders as much as possible. I feel that the conferences about marriage and not necessarily only about photography and video it would be very good to have a general marriage I already said this at the beginning more than just photography and video which are the only ones that bring people together should listen to our podcast but I think they are doing it. I think they are doing it. And I think some of the audience that appeared here in this congress that happened more recently may have been there not only for our podcasts but for other international conferences like BODEF to be listening to us. But precisely for this because they need to find people who care about the community more than people who care about showing themselves and promoting themselves. Because I think this happens a lot and then there are big risks and there are risks of hearing people saying nonsense on stage and that may eventually ruin their careers even if it's not their careers for the grooms it can be their careers or what other people think about them but I think whoever gets involved like us, we are all here at this moment, whoever is listening we are here voluntarily giving our time for the community and I think that if someone dedicates this time they can't have many more things to say or they can't be shitting themselves because I know that it's not in this podcast that you can say this they are not people shitting themselves for the community they are people who are actually concerned and willing to enlarge the community to improve the community and that's why they should listen to our podcasts, whoever organizes conferences but I feel and I'll say it again whoever is listening think about this possibility of organizing a conference the same way you talked about Vanessa maybe an expo to the grooms or a white wedding all of a sudden creating a space for conversation for other suppliers and not just a space for promotion and not always being the same exactly this has so many layers not only your question I'll try to sum up 2 or 3 points the thing is in relation to my guests if it's alternating it's by chance I honestly didn't notice because my organization is I have a co-ord for the areas like photography is one thing video is another, flowers is another and I have that up front to give me a visual idea I don't want to have 2 photographers at the same time or in a row for example the first 5 I didn't put them I recorded Vanessa the next day with Ivo, but I didn't want to put them together because it was not only too close to their brand but also too close to photography and video so I put the genius in the middle there are things that I totally agree with you but curiously I didn't have to think about it for me it's a cool scene I'm not thinking if I'm going to invite a man or a woman I've been looking for people with talent friends and people I admire a lot sometimes it's one, sometimes it's another it's a fact that there are areas where it's difficult for example, I only know 2 or 3 videographers that don't work with women I know Maria Testares, I know Melanie from Andorinha I know Vanessa, but she works with Ivo I know a series of couples there are many good photographers videographers it's very difficult, I only know these 2 but there are more and we have more yes, but then but now I'll tell you the opposite you also have men florists wait, I'll get to that you have very few men wedding planners I know there are but there are very few florists, I know there are I know them, in terms of name for example Bosque, I love them recently but they are exceptions there are areas where even if you want because I don't want my problem is that I don't want to invite a woman or a man I want to invite a professional that has something to share one of the funniest things that's cool, but it's also interesting that it's so expensive I worry about the representativeness for example, Ana Luisa I love Ana Luisa's work and I know that she is an extremely communicative person and it would be a spectacular episode if it was about photography and that's why I invited her I knew that the issue of her being gay belongs to the LGBTQI community I knew that it could arise and even Ana Luisa you know her, a few days ago she sent me a message saying Rui, if you want to talk about gay issues you are welcome to try everything it ended up being a lot about the community and spectacular, but I didn't invite her to talk about that I invited her thinking she is the person I know that if this issue arises it's with her that I want to talk exactly she is able to make a good communication and it's like she says, I don't speak for the community I speak for myself and it's spectacular I don't speak for photographers I don't speak for men I don't speak for white men we speak for us and she says this and I loved it my priorities when I invite people I admire you there is an area that I admire you does it make sense? basically that's it and then I think, ok I'm not going to keep inviting only women or only men I want to be representative I want to get to the end of the list but deep down Rui, you are doing it spontaneously I'm aware of that it's working but if at some point you realized when you make your list and you only had 10 women maybe you would change your mind that's what I was going to say it's something we have to keep in mind and be aware of no doubt it's as simple as that I have a wife at home that I love more than anything I have a daughter I have two boys too I don't want her to enter the world just because a woman doesn't enter it doesn't make sense maybe I don't blame those who don't realize this it's normal to look at a poster at conferences and as we were talking before Rita arrived we were talking off and I looked at the poster and thought look, it's only gays and it's always the same and I know in these areas I also don't defend that it has to be it's like you I defend that the person has to be good at everything and we have good people in everything and it was cool to bring people in everything and that's why I also realized that you two have been a balanced thing let's go why should people go to your podcast why should conferences go to your podcast to get speakers I think that answer is very simple I answered that by answering why I did the podcast I turned around and thought I know the most amazing people in Portugal I'm a friend of the best professionals like what's the question? ok, let's go for example, Jenny told me that she went to record a podcast and that she was the first and I said hey, good scene, awesome and she said I was the first and I said no because I wanted to see who would go first that's very bad if someone told me that I think there are times when it's better to lie don't say that, it's bad but if someone no one ever told me no they told me now I can't for example João from Jukebox he was one of the first people I talked to and he told me go to November I said I can't, I'm so busy that I can't do that and I said, João, it's not your fault I'll wait for you and I had for example Malta do Bosco and I told them we have a lot of things happening in our brand and in our company and I think it doesn't make sense to talk to the community so maybe later and I said it's not my fault it's perfect if they tell me that it's bad I don't know If I were the first, she would say, Rui, whenever you want, let's go. And I would be like, pfff... You... well... Thank you, Sofia. Thank you for being my friend. And it's a bit like that. I mean, I had access to the most incredible people in this country. So I think it was my obligation to talk to them. If I... Rui, but you did... Sorry. No, it was just to finish and I'll finish. No, finish. If this is my opinion, it's my opinion, obviously. It's indelible how professional they all are. You can know that if you talk about photography in Portugal you have to talk about Andrea. If you talk about blah, you have to talk about Sofia. If you talk about video, you have to talk about Vanessa Doibuição. Even now. If you talk about photography you have to talk about Vanessa. If you talk about make-up, you have to talk about Geneva. If you talk about cake design you have to talk about Ana de Cake Shop. If you talk about wedding planning you have to talk about Jasmine. There's no alternative, if you talk about video you have to talk about Carlos. It can even be an inspiration for Vanessa. I'm only talking about the first two because it's easier to summarize. In the first ten, you have Susana. If you talk about marriage in Portugal, you have to talk about Susana. That's why she was your first guest. And you say, why do they have to go there? Why are they here? In Rita's case it's the same. You talk to whoever you have access to. But if you have the best there, you talk to whoever. And why do you think all these people you talked to Why do you think so few of your guests go to the conferences? Because the conferences are weak. In general, the conferences are weak in Portugal. I think this was an event that opened a path to something cool. But let me also say one thing. I think the common problem of conferences in Portugal is that they are organized by private companies. Private brands. And I think that closes the deal. I think we are doing conferences all the time that I remember. Except for the old ones, which had that good part. But I don't think it worked because it was too much. But you have this conference, the Shootfest. It was organized by Dreambooks. Dreambooks will naturally, commercially speaking, it's logical, will give a place of speech to its ambassadors. It's understandable. And it will block the ambassadors of other brands. Exactly. And I understand why it happens. I don't agree, but I understand why it happens. How is it solved? And more. Why aren't there conferences of cake design? There is no brand of flour that suddenly has the advantage of doing this. That is, things just happen. If there is money, why is it only for photographers? But here we go back to what we talked about before. Shootfest is a brand that makes photography albums. It organized a conference where they talk about photography. But it wasn't just about photography, as far as I understood. But we are talking about photographers, essentially. And we go back to the same thing. There are no photography conferences. There are only conferences and meetings related to photography. And that is a constant problem. I also think that photographers have more free time. Than the guys in the video, I'm sure. And maybe they have more money to spend. More money available, let's put it that way. And unfortunately, you get into the scene of who is starting, who is with a lot of energy. Maybe Dreambook did that because they know they don't have clients yet. And they are going to get new clients. People who are new to the market. For our own experience, more expensive events for people who have been in the industry for a long time. It's not very easy. It's a very small sample, even because we are in Guimarães. Let me put the same question this way. I understand why Dreambook makes an event for photographers. For their clients, of course. But why don't you have anyone in Portugal doing a conference for wedding planners? I think there was a small meeting. I didn't go, but there was a meeting. There was a small meeting, I think it was 15, 20, I don't know. Something like that, cool. But what is the difference between one and the other? Dreambook went to try to find... It made a cool scene. With mistakes, but it made a cool scene. For their clients. Or for potential clients. There is no one who moves more. Because photographers were the entrance for decades. Photographers and Quintas. They were the bride's entrance. And now they are the wedding planners. There is no one who moves more money right now. And it will increase a lot in the coming years. Than the wedding planners. Why isn't there someone, a private brand. Who has the capacity to do it. Make an event for them. Because a wedding planner is not the client of one. It's the client of everyone. And it's your client now. And they can't block that... That's why no one is interested in doing it. I know who could do it, but who won't do it. It's us. No, it's the country we are in. Who I had to do was the Tourism of Portugal. Tourism. Yes. It has already been tried. Vanessa, we were together at the Reinvent the Event. Last year. It has already been tried to do a congress. But it was an event. Much more open. And they talked about Tourism of Portugal. And Tourism of Portugal was present. But it wasn't just for weddings. But it was necessary to talk about the importance of weddings. And tourism. I think we like to be artists. And we don't realize that we are working in tourism. Even if it's in here. We are working directly. More and more. If we have a Portuguese wedding in Portugal. We are working with the restaurant. People are leaving their homes to consume in the restaurant. And drinks. We will have entertainment. Clothes, hairdressers. All these things that are easily allocated to tourism. But now let me do my provocation. Both of them. As well. It's exactly the same thing. As well? Wow! Rita loves it. Wow! And let's explain to those who are listening. The community Women on Weddings. Vanessa and I. And Elsa. We co-founded. Exactly. In the year of the pandemic. To add photographers and videographers. The provocation explained from this point. Why are we doing this? I understand why it exists. There it is. Let's bring. Let's make a core. That can fight for equality of opportunities. Within the area. I agree 100%. But it is a community. That closes and creates limits. Because I loved being part of it. Do you understand? And I already had several kids saying. And that is. When they were created. As well. As well. I needed community. I needed to connect with people. And that is something. That all of us. We had a lot of people tell us that. In different ways. Some people made fun. And they could not assume clearly. I also liked to be part of it. And they did the thing. Why do you think you have to get together? And why only women? That's what I'm saying. There are ways to say things. I'll tell you. Daniel from Menino Conhece Menina. Was one of the people who approached me. And I loved being part of it. Please do that. To involve men too. Why is that? In this specific case. You are talking about women photographers. And I understand the purpose. But at a time when there was nothing. Nothing fresh. Nothing new. You created something limited and blocked. That served a purpose. And I think it still does. But what I felt was. Once again. I'm a photographer and I'm not left out. But it's one of those situations. Where I believe there are a lot of people. Who say I'm a woman. But I'm not a photographer. But there we really needed to leave some people out. To give space to some intimate conversations. For women to happen. I understand all of that. I know a little bit of the things that happened. Because Elsa is part of it. Elsa doesn't have this active part. You know both of them. She is super nice. And super excited. Personally. But she is very introverted. And she lets a lot of people in. And I like these things more. I end up being connected. More or less. I know what happens. But going back. To the conversation we were having. We have too many communities. All of them are photographers and videographers. There you go. Photographers. And we leave the guys out. I'm joking. But it's true. You were the first to create a video community. You were the first to create. I have to tell you, Rui. We have a video community. Something Blue Workshop. And I have there. All the people who participated. And continue to participate. And I'm in João. And in João there are videographers. It's totally different from Discord. I think it's necessary. Maybe you need these little spaces. I don't know if creating. The truth is. We all have the same tools. And all these years. I don't understand. How big companies. That do these events. How they don't have these communities. Because. They gather hundreds of people. Every year. In the same places. And they are doing something wrong. Because they are getting lost. You have to have someone. You have to have someone. I know it's not conceptual. But nothing will be. But there are also things that are difficult to mix. I'm thinking. Let's imagine. A white wedding. Where they are together. All the areas of the wedding suppliers. All professionals. And it's done to show their work. And for clients and grooms. The grooms are going to visit the white wedding. And suddenly. On stage. There is a congress. There is a debate. Between wedding suppliers. We really want all the grooms. To be listening. It depends on what we are going to talk about. Yes or no. Because there are internal things. That we have to discuss as professionals. To be able to share with the grooms. The results of our learning. I think it's yes or no. You need to have both conversations. It can happen for example. Since we are all here together. The fair closes at 6. The grooms leave. Let's get together for a debate. You can have a debate with the grooms. In a phase. Between professionals. Imagine. With us asking questions. Exposing their doubts. And the suppliers answering. This is amazing. There is also a part. To feel safe. In the place where you are. We are not pointing fingers. To feel safe. And who goes first. Takes a lot of shit. But a conference. Is not an intimate place. No, no. It's not an intimate place. We did conferences. In João. I did the workshops. I know it's not an intimate place. I talk a lot. As you can see. And because I talk a lot. Because I'm not the star today. It's you. Because I talk a lot. I take a lot of shit. I'm called a lot of things. There are people who do not agree. I'm at a point in my life. I do not see that things are black and white. There is a lot of gray in the middle. And a person has to know how to navigate. But there are people who only see black and white. And they identify you as a hero or a villain. And the villains always have to talk. The villains are always. I mean. Of course. When you expose yourself. You are not criticized. You can only be criticized if you expose yourself. Shut up. I'm going to use your podcasts to complain. People. Talking about money is not bad. Talking about how much you earn. Or how much you want to earn. It's not bad. Because no one is. We can be as leftist as possible. But we all need a salary. To pay our scenes. Because we are in a capitalist world. And we are. Whether we fall or not. We all want a better world. But the leftist bloc. Is also worried about money. The leftist bloc is worried about money. Let's leave it at that. We all live. We are in Venezuela. Changing the subject. Why should it be bad? Why after 12 years. Someone comes and says. I remember. 5 or 6 years ago. We were having a conversation. On whatsapp. Because it's horrible. They charge 3.500 euros. Have you seen that? They can't. If I charge 3.500. You can too. Why should we talk about price and money? It's not bad. There has to be a market for everyone. Like Andrei said. You start at 1.000. There is a market for everyone. But we all want everyone's good. We talk a lot. Because we don't talk about money. It's a pain. In our personal lives. Because we are all stupid. Here in Portugal. We have a lot of illiteracy. We are all in secret. We send fake emails. Send me a message. I have a link in my wallet. Someone says. I saw that they shared your wallet. I don't care. Now I'm not going to have a drone. Now I'm going to include the drone. Now I'm going to put more 500. Now I'm going to go down 1.000. Because I think it's too expensive. All of us who have been working for a long time. Our prices are like that. But we don't talk about much. And when we talk. We are a lot of reasons for external conversations. Because we talk about when to charge. When not to charge. What is our opinion about money or not. It shouldn't be bad. That's why people ask me. Go to the podcast. Go talk. Because I don't know what you go through. I don't know. If you are a catering manager. I don't know what kind of requirements. The client makes you. On the day I'm there. And I'm just worried. With the video I'm going to make. Why are you taking the dishes. I'm talking about experience. Tell me as a catering manager. What is possible and what is not possible. That's why going forward. Not everyone can do it. Going forward is a lonely road. It's a lonely road. The way to the top is a lonely road. And that's it. When you go forward. Cyclists. The cyclist who goes forward. Why are they all in a line? What goes forward is cutting the wind. The others are behind. This is true. It has already been tested in programs like Mythbusters. If you go in front of a truck. You spend less fuel. Because the truck is making a lot of wind. Behind the truck. If you go in front. That's what I was thinking. If you go behind a truck. You cut the wind for the truck. A lot of wind is made by the truck. If you go behind. You spend less fuel for the car. In our market it's the same. You talk about money. A lot of people will call you names. They will say that you only think about money. But they will be there. Maybe they have good reason to increase you. When you go forward on a certain topic. Especially if it's a polarizing topic. You will take things. But being a leader is not for everyone. Going forward is not for everyone. That's why there is no ... We're talking about conferences again. That's why conferences always end up being the same. Because it's safer. Because conferences don't invite leaders. Leaders. If I want to make money. I have to do a workshop with a photographer. Rui, you're saying. Conferences don't invite leaders. They invite leaders. But they are mass leaders with linear opinions. That's why they are mass leaders. I think they invite media people. Exactly. They are leaders in the sense that. Maybe they don't expose themselves. Saying more sincere opinions. And not popular. They are popular people. And they will bring a lot of people. But they won't change anything. Because they won't. Issue opinions. Or bring topics of conversation. That make things change. Because they are not polemic. The question of being a leader. I'm sorry. I'm not going to use the words. To offend anyone. It's just an analogy. It's almost like you have a shepherd. But you don't make them think. And many times. You have people that move a lot of people. They have a lot of followers. Tens of thousands. And people that follow them. But they don't make them think. And those people that are usually in these conferences. And I think this happens out there too. Although the Boldafs of this life. Which were the ones I went to. And the northern and rural ones. With some exceptions. I think it's common. That sometimes they have interesting things to say. And sometimes they don't. And I'll give you a concrete example. Yesterday at Shootfest. Sofia had three panels. Luckily. Sofia is an extraordinary person. And she speaks in any of them. But Sofia was invited. To be in the wedding planners panel. And then the question is. How does she organize suppliers? And she says. I'm not the wedding planner. They did the research. These are the things. I didn't send them an email. I'll send them a feedback email. Because I think a lot of things were well done. And those that weren't well done. I think it's very easy to do well. I think it was. They were navigating a series of new territories. And a lot of things got in the way. And I understand and accept. But I think they did a good job. I think they have a lot to improve. In other words. Sofia was in other places. Where it made sense to speak. André was in more than one panel. All quiet. But then to be in the wedding planners panel. It doesn't make sense. and then the questions were molded to the area of Sofia. And there it is, Sofia has been doing this for 20 years, 21 years, she has always had a lot of things to say. Of course, she has this uncertainty, but she could have been someone else. Because she is a leader, she was put in the wrong place to lead. And sometimes this is the problem, you invite people just because they are media, sometimes they are leaders, sometimes they are not, of course, you invite people who are going to drag other photographers and other people, not always thinking about changing the market, it's just more, let's continue to chew this, let's continue to sell what we are selling, and everything is fine. The ex-pornographers have these problems. Because they have this intention of selling behind. Yes, there is no intention of changing the market, and I understand that changing a society is difficult, changing the market is difficult, but where did I see this? I think it was in a conversation, in a conversation with someone, it was from Nati, from the last podcast, where she said that at the time of the pandemic she was out of work in the marketing area, but she was already doing some consultations. And she talked to a friend and said, this is not easy, and he said, why don't you start? She said, but this is going to take a long time. And he told me, if it's going to take a long time, it's better to start now. And the change of society, it's going to take 20 years. So start now. Of course. And I think that's what's missing, like, let's start changing, it's not going to be for a year, it's not going to be maybe in 10 years, but let's try. And we don't know what the result is going to be. Of course, I remember when it was the beginning, at the beginning of the pandemic, there was, I think it was from the United Kingdom, no, Spain, it was Spain, precisely, I knew they were foreigners, but they were our brothers here, they created a community of mutual help and support, and they even did live streams on Instagram, where they only talked about the difficulties, and how each one was solving them, and how they exchanged contacts, and how they changed dates, etc. And they created this community and they were able to do it very well. And once again, going back to the topic, and we've been talking a lot about this, which is also a bit of what interests us, is this lack of cohesion between all, really, all marriage professors, and everyone being able to have a place to speak. And I think that's missing. And we have a lot, the idea, and that's what I was going to say a while ago, that there are taboo topics, as Vanessa said, one of them, she mentioned the prices, but there are a series of other taboo topics that sometimes we shouldn't be talking about, but why not? I remember during the pandemic, when the pandemic started, and when they started to close down Italy, I immediately realized what was going to happen here, I realized, I felt right away what was going to happen, and I started, in a way, to analyze Italy, and to understand Italy, and almost foreseeing what was going to happen to us, and I made a story on Instagram that said, Colleagues and Brides, has anyone ever felt, has anyone ever felt affected in Portugal, in relation to COVID-19, at the time, the terms were changing, there was no word for pandemic, has any of your brides or grooms ever had to cancel a wedding, has anyone ever been affected? And I received, a lot of phonemes, immediately saying, delete your stories, you can't talk about this, you're going to ruin the market, because you're going to scare the brides, and I thought, you don't even know what's going on, friend. They warned us, you can't talk about this, but why can't we talk about this? We can talk about everything. And then we realized how necessary it was to talk about this, and that we should have started to get together and prepare a long time ago, which is a bit like what you were saying, because it's a bit too late, it has to be now. Yes, yes, yes. And this is just an example. We just brought it to this side a bit, but also talking about your podcast, I think the grooms are part of this conversation. There are things that have to be done by the investors, but I think the grooms are part of this conversation. Because they need to understand, and we need to make them understand. In a global way, of course, people are different, but the needs, in the same way that we are all different, but we have common problems, common pains, and they also have common insecurities. I'm going to apply this to the grooms who may be listening to us, and to understand how it can be important for them the cohesion of the community, and in a certain way, a certain scrutiny of who is or is not validated, or who does not have the skills to do this, which is precisely this. In the same way that you are not going to hire a doctor who does not have the training and specialization, nor a lawyer who does not belong to the order, because he cannot exercise if he does not belong to the order, a psychiatrist or whatever, they should also not hire a matchmaker who has absolutely no validation, or any experience, or any real contact with what is the wedding industry. And let's make a note here, which I think is very important. We all have to start somewhere, and before I photographed the first wedding, I had never photographed weddings. But we have all already talked about the possibility of starting with a professional, so that we can somehow make mistakes in the name of others, with our backs protected. To learn. As I did with Luís Dalandes, with whom I photographed for two years as a second, and all the mistakes I made were saved by him, who was the first photographer and was doing it. Like a wedding planner, you need an assistant, and you go with her, like a florist, you need someone to make the mistake of putting the wrong flowers in the middle, or the wrong flowers on the outside, and a head of the room, and all of us in all areas, ok? So, for the grooms, and now I speak to my grooms who are listening to us, it is very important that you are aware that the person you are going to hire for your service knows what they are doing. He has already made mistakes with other people, but he will not make a mistake with you, because he has already gone through this experience and already has this experience. And in fact, you don't have that validation on any side, there is no certificate, there is no seal, there is nothing that says it belongs to the Association of Wedding Professionals, because this does not exist in Portugal, but there are places where it exists, there are countries where this exists. And maybe, and now thinking of the message to my colleagues, maybe it will be necessary, we are growing a lot, and tourism in Portugal has already been mentioned, it will be necessary to start to validate, to certify, in some way, the professionals who are working well in the field, so that we don't have... Look, the example that Ana Luísa gave, which I found, and I can't stop talking about it, in the LGBT community, suddenly you have someone who photographs LGBT weddings and there are more, and then behind them, they go around saying this and that, haha, how ridiculous, with those horrible terms that we know no one can use anymore, right? And we talk not only about the LGBT community and homophobia, but we also talk about racism, and we know that there are many people who are publicly practising racism in Portugal, and who are promoting other ethnic marriages, and suddenly behind them, they go around saying what they are saying. This is very serious, and it is very important that these people are selected in some way. And the truth is that it is like this, of the few, we are starting to smell what mass tourism is. We think that there is already a lot, oh my God, so many foreign weddings, they now even come to the North, Americans, Canadians, Indians, we think we are already there, no, we are smelling, we are starting, it's just the beginning. Because if we don't all increase our ability to adapt, to learn, to learn more, the small mistakes that we make when we go abroad, when suddenly there are problems, and we are like, so your wedding planner, or your musician is not going, no, he didn't show up. And that is suddenly a drama, because there really was that person there, and that is a bigger scale. We are just scraping, because when you enter a higher level of demand, which is to have mass tourism, mass tourism will bring us customers, obviously everyone, because it will flow, it always flows for everyone, there will always be mistakes, and the mistakes are the ones that will make, almost like we all have customers, that is, I had a friend, the photographer didn't deliver the photos. You think, what do you mean? We are in 2024, there are still photographers who don't deliver the photos. Ah, you even contacted him, oh, I only have the number, he doesn't answer. You only have the number, you don't have a residence, a contract, a business card. And the flowers were not those, to pass it on to all suppliers. It's true. Because it's that issue, it's obvious that our professions are different, from doctors or that, but you can't have a certificate, but you can have a feeling of tribe. And what you were talking about, it's what happened on Tuesday at the conference, where you have a person who says, for 200 people to hear, that he has a different form of payment for another ethnicity. For another ethnicity, from Cacti to Portuguese. And he didn't say this in this relatively polite, eloquent way that I'm doing. No, he used more specific terms. He used the term post-Castanho. Discriminatory. Yes, this was said. For the Castanheiros, it's 20-80. And so, how does a fiancé know this? He doesn't know. He doesn't know, because this is going to be extremely, this is going to be extremely talked about in our community, but it's never going to reach you. So, the only way I know, I can be very ignorant about this, but the way I know it is, because this is terrible for us, I feel not only uncomfortable about the whole situation, but I feel extremely ashamed for being a photographer and doing that. I would feel the same discomfort and shame if I were a cacti designer. Because it was done in a public way, and we are often taken for granted. Exactly. And he is a part of it, and easily, this is going to spread to the whole... Exactly. Exactly. And it's the same thing that I always struggle with when people say that Portugal is a racist country. Or a racist country. No. Portugal is a country with barbaric people, with stupid people, and with racist people, and with homophobic people, and with racist people. All of that. But we are not that part. But we are not. I can't be in a... You are right. You see? But this hurts us all in one way or another. And now, there is a difference, from the conversation I had with Ana Luísa, that you have blind spots. Especially with the issues of homosexuality, of the queer community, as Ana Luísa says, and the term she feels comfortable with. I don't know what the term is. I used that because... Hey, you are comfortable with that, that's good for me, because I don't have... I don't have that access to as many people in the community as you do. But you need to be... I have blind spots. And I'm sure there is a lot of shit that I said I shouldn't. But you need to have two things. First, to be open to criticism. To be open to learning. And to ask the questions. You will say shit, you will. You will fail, you will. But if you fail once, you may learn for the next time. And this applies to everything. It applies to work, it applies to life, it applies to society. And I think we only do this by talking. And we go back to the beginning of this podcast. Because we go in almost two hours of conversation. And why are we able to talk about so many things? Why are we able to talk about so many things? Because we make ourselves available until two hours of conversation. When do you make a video? And we're not here with filters, and we're not here to please everyone. Because we're not afraid to say the truth and what needs to be said. And this has to happen. Podcasts are a format that works for us. Many others will exist. Conferences are others that bring you a different wealth. Because you have something happening on stage, but then you have a wealth happening at lunch, at dinner, at the party, in the middle of the talks. There's a lot going on here. But then there's this format that has this advantage. I know that on Monday, and now your schedule is from summer to Tuesday, at the beginning of the week, if we know that we're doing something for someone, I'm not going to be arrogant and think that I'm... If I'm helping someone that's amazing, if I'm doing something for them, I don't even need to listen to what I'm saying or what my guests are saying. If we're doing something for someone, for me it's already amazing. And I think that's one of the things that... You were saying at the beginning, Vanessa, we have two. I know that Isabel's clap has another one. I think there's another one coming up. We need dozens of them. We need dozens of them. To hear people say... You have to listen... To reach audiences and audiences. Of course, none of us will reach everyone. So, the more, the better. You have to learn. I learn from you. I also need to listen. I need podcasts. I need podcasts, so... That's it. Sometimes I get to Thursday and I think, I've already sold out my list. I'm going to look for new things. Let me ask you this question, Rita. What are your election podcasts? Look, I can't help but talk about... And you can't say the A that I'm leaving. I can't help... Yes, of course. You already know that. You already know that I... Don't say the A, don't say the A. I already listened to Vanessa when she started with the Let's Talk About Marriages, too. I have to get that one day. You have to get that one with João. I already listened to you. The Vanessa Show. I can't help but talk about the Prova de Contacto podcast because João Paulo and Ruben Mália have been doing a photography podcast for many years now, which has nothing to do with marriages. So, we have people who like photography, travel, landscapes, nature, street photography. It's super interesting to get to know new projects and new jobs, even because João Paulo was my mentor. He was the one who helped me with all the technical part, installing, recording, how do I open an account, how do I start a podcast, how do I edit. He helped me with all of that, I can't help but say that. I listen to some foreigners, too, but... But tell me about that, too. I listened to Dionísio's Conversas de Café. I listen to foreigners, I don't know their names, Beginners, Photography, anything. Photography clubs? No, no, I listen to a lot of different things, too. I really like to listen to A Beleza das Pequenas Coisas, look, to memorize things. The other day I left a list of that. A Beleza das Pequenas Coisas, by Espresso. I really like to listen to that writer who talks to his 90-year-old mother, who is so beautiful. I had to go to the list, I can't do it alone, it's a lot of pressure. But you say it and I'll look for it. Yes, I'll send the list. We can leave a list of podcast suggestions. I'm not a big fan of podcasts. Well, you're a videographer, you have to listen to a lot of things. No, actually, when I'm working, it distracts me. When I'm basically in the administrative part and social media and whatever, it distracts me a lot, I listen to Carro. I obviously listen to the two of you, then I listen to Bárbara Barroso, Manilab. I don't know that one. It's about financial literacy, it's really cool. Yeah, I listen to Manilab, I like it a lot. I don't care. I listen to Manilab, I listen to... That's basically it, sometimes I listen to Joana Marques. Actually, I listened to everything about Castelo Branco, by Joana Marques, it was my summary, it was my short story, in the last two months, it was like, let me see. I only listen to Carro trips. And I listen to one, which is actually Ivo's podcast, I call him when we go on Carro trips, we do a lot of them, he listens to one called Criminal. It's about crimes. It's really cool. My husband likes to listen to documentaries. It's about crimes. Yeah, it's about crimes. But I'm not a big consumer, actually. Look, I have two or three notes here. I really like to listen to Workflows, it's about photography, and it's by Imogen, and it's tips for photographers. And he has it very organized, and it's like, what do you do to improve your delivery time? What do you do to make your client more profitable financially? He always asks the same questions and each one gives his own big tip. And I really like to listen to Zero's podcast, because I always try to apply my environmentalist side in construction, in growth, in evolution. Zero's podcast, about sustainability and ecology. And I really like 45°, which is about politics, finance, which gives me an eloquent air, and makes me want to say this. But I like it, I like to learn. And the podcast by the Foundation is also very interesting, because I like to listen to art, art history, and I really like it. It's very common. My routine is simple. My Monday morning usually starts with the show whose names we are legally not allowed to say, or Ver no Sombra to friends. But it's really called like that. A quick story, it was part of Media Capital, And they are often in first place, aren't they? Yes, yes. I don't have the habit of listening. Ver no Sombra for 10 years. They were hired by PAPACIC. A year later, TVI or Media Capital put that in court. Someone put that in court for them to be using the same name. And they changed the name of the show whose names we are legally not allowed to say. It's them. And it's written visually. Exactly, exactly. On the show's table you have Ver no Sombra, with the police's yellow ribbon. You can clearly see what's there. But it's censored. I didn't know. It's basically about politics. And I love it because they have a great quality and they are from different areas. It's very interesting to listen to them. That's how my week starts. For a long time I listened to Business Made Simple, which is an American podcast for business. It started with marketing, and over the years evolved into business in general. A lot of things. I listened to 6 years of episodes in a year and a half. Recently, I've listened to Rogan many times, Modern Wisdom, Chris Williamson. They are very ideological scenes from the beginning. It starts with success, life, balance. That's what I talk about. Recently, Jenny sent me an episode of the Diary of a CEO, which has nothing to do with the life of a CEO. I mean, it has nothing to do with business. It's about life. By the way, I don't listen to MoneyLab that much, but I listen to them. I usually listen to them more regularly. but essentially that's it. And the rest is history. The rest is history? And the rest is history. It's a podcast, it's a radio program on Radio Observador with João Miguel Tavares who is a journalist and Rui Ramos who is a historian. And it's spectacular, there are things like that. Let's explain the beginning of fascism in... I'm joking, but just to give you an idea of how it all started. Let's talk about the beginning of fascism in the 30s. I'm not going to dig too deep, I'm just going to dig up to the 17th century. And he starts literally, he digs three centuries to explain, it's also fascinating. Ok, just so we don't get bad here, I wanted to say, because I couldn't say the name of the writer José Luís Peixoto José Luís Peixoto who has a podcast called Menina Alzira in which he talks to his mother of almost 90 years and it's very interesting on the human side, which is to learn with our elders and to understand a lot of things. Girls, it seems like two hours is a long time. It seems great. If it's two, it's one hour. One hour for each podcast. One hour for each. It should be three, you also have to talk. Vanessa, thank you. You're welcome, thank you very much for inviting me. It was a pleasure to meet you. For proposing this and for helping us to start this conversation. Do you know how sure I was? That it will happen more often. I hope so. It has to be. I hope you talk a lot about this. Talk a lot about what we said and about the lack of filters we had. Have you ever eaten a good candy and you didn't eat the second one? It's true. Have you ever eaten a donut and you didn't want more? How? It doesn't exist. Good things have to be repeated. It depends if you're on a diet or not. When I'm on a diet, I only eat four donuts. When I'm on a diet, I only eat four donuts. When I'm on a diet, I eat four donuts. When I'm on a diet, I eat four donuts. Good things have to be repeated. Don't do one thing and do another. Thank you very much, it was an honor. Thank you all. This has to go to the video. My dear, it was a great pleasure. Now I'm going to upload a stop. Kisses. See you soon. We have reached the end of this episode. If you liked it, I ask you to subscribe to the podcast. See you next week.