"A prioridade és tu"

episode: 20 title: "Ep. 20 - "A prioridade és tu", com Elsa Silva" pub_date: "Mon, 12 Aug 2024 05:00:00 +0000" original_language: english source_audio: "ac87a67b.mp3"

Hi, welcome. I'm Rui and this is the WEG Podcast. Rui, do you want to do the introduction? Let's ignore here... 5, 4, 3, 2, 1... Welcome everyone to the WEG Podcast. Why are you laughing? This is funny. 3, 2, 1... Did you like it? I liked it a lot. Today we have another funny episode, which has been huge this August. And it has a round number... That's it Vanessa, cut it all out. And it has this round number, which is episode 20. And I knew from the beginning that episode 20 would be special. And... That's why I invited our dear Vanessa, who will be here for the third time in this podcast. Maybe I should start sponsoring. I'm going to do the miller's scene. I put money. I suggested to Rui to do the miller for the podcast. A kind of crowdfunding. She didn't use the miller. Crowdfunding sounds cooler. Crowdfunding is cooler. It's English, which is to combine with the WEG Podcast. But actually, the miller, because I don't want to have things. I'm going for the money. Like, I have two euros here. You know that scene from the 52-week savings? Yes, yes. Like that. I just want to go to the podcast. Okay. And to continue. I had planned to do this episode 20. Special, because I have my wife here with me, Elsa. Many families asked to be invited. Not many families, but there were two or three people. One, probably. No, there were two or three people who said it would be fun to talk to you. Clearly, they are not in our house. Because if they were, they would realize that our conversations are not always the most interesting and fun. But we will do well here. Even because we have Vanessa asking us questions, we are not the ones saying them. And now I pass the ball to Vanessa. And now it's with you. What do I say now? I don't know, now it's with you. I'm better like this. Better. Wow! I'm great at improvising. I didn't prepare anything for the Ruedo audience. The Duet podcast audience. You know that this is the episode that is followed by the one with Rita. I want people to get sick of me. I want people to realize that you plan everything and that you do a... And you're not going to say the special date of this episode? No, I was going to ask that, but you can say it. But now you're saying it, Elsa. Why is today's date special? I don't know if it's today or if it's the day of the podcast. It's the day of the podcast. It's the day of the podcast. But your name is different. It's because this boy is turning 40. Today, if it goes well and I don't pass away until Monday, on the 12th of August, when this airs, I'll be 40 years old. It's a very big number. Exactly. How long have you been together? Since you met, right? Married. Say it. 17. You hesitated there a little bit. No, I didn't hesitate. You hesitated, you hesitated. 17 years old, married for 10. We'll be 10 in two days, right? Two episodes, the day of the episode, in two days we'll be 10 years old, married. Which is a lot. Do you think it's too much? I don't think so. I think we still have a long way to go. You hesitated a lot. You hesitated a lot. They're recording, that's why. I heard that too. You hesitated a lot. Ok, 17 years old together. How long have you been working together? Well... 17, well... 14, yes. So you've been together for 3 years. Yes. More or less. Yes and no. More or less. We've never had a honeymoon, maybe that's why. Exactly, a little bit like that. We started dating in 2007. We knew each other. Our beginning was a little funny. On May 5th. And then, a year later, a year and a half later, we bought the first machine. It was a short time after that. We don't have any previous history of photography. That's why we bought a machine. Because we were a married couple. We didn't have a husband. We were at ease. Because the company where Elsa worked, we could buy a machine without a husband. And we thought that. And we thought that. We thought it was for life. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Maybe Elsa, because we didn't start there. We started telling you why this is happening. I know Monday is a special day. Maybe you introduce who you are. And you start introducing yourself. Who are you? I'm Elsa. Vanessa, you start right away. I don't know what to say. I don't like to talk about myself. I want to know. There are people who don't know who you are. Who listens to the podcast knows who Rui is. I don't know if you haven't talked about yourself. As a person? No. Who are you? As a person? Who are you? What do you do? I'm a 40 year old girl. 41! Whatever. I'm a photographer. That's what defines me. It's something I like to do. What's your brand? Instant Photography. For those who don't know, I'm a photographer for now. I've never had a past related to photography. It was never something I was crazy about. In fact, I hated photographers. Now tell me why. I have a very negative experience with photographers. Because my parents never went to take pictures. We didn't have a camera. We had disposable cameras. I went back and forth. But my mother had a habit. On Easter, she would dress me up in a beautiful dress and call the photographer home. When I was little, I still liked that. But when I was 14, I started to hate it. My pictures are terrible. That was the image of Mr. Júlio, the photographer, who went home to take our pictures. That's why photography wasn't very important to me. I have very few pictures from my adolescence. Even before we started taking pictures, we were very few. It was born out of curiosity. My mother loved photography. She already had a photographer, Dulce Daniel, a fashion photographer. We bought a camera because of him. It was a very unpretentious thing. Without any purpose. We started to take pictures. It was funny. We were two young people. We didn't have anything to entertain us. We took pictures. We did photographic marathons. I always liked weddings. She was the girl who went to church to see the brides. I was the girl of the choir. I sang in a choir. I sang in a choir too. There wasn't much to do. I went to the schools. I didn't go to the schools because my mother didn't let me. I remember I went to the catechesis because the others went. I was two years late. I went to the catechesis. They said yes. On Sunday you have the catechesis and then you go to the mass. My mother and my father said do whatever you want. It was a bit different. I did it until the communion. My mother wanted it. After the communion I said to my mother I'm going to take a year off. I'm turning 29. I don't want to go back. I had no idea what was going to happen. The choir was the coolest. It was the church choir but the songs were more modern. They weren't boring. I kept doing it. My group sang songs that were very cheerful very young, very cheerful. Our generation brought it. We sang at weddings. I loved to see the brides. I always like a good love story. Our friends started to get married. We started to see things that we didn't like. You are skipping a bit. We had already decided to get married in 2010. Although we did the first ones in 2011. But in 2010 we had already decided to do it and I think Raquel wasn't married. We started to have some married because we started to see. I don't know. It was after we... I don't remember. It was a long time ago. We had already decided to do it and then they started to get married and we did what we wanted to do. We took a lot of pictures with them. We did it with them, with a lot of friends. In research we found out that there were only two photographers who had a fresher approach. I told him I wanted to take pictures of the wedding. I don't know what he said. And I told him you are a fool. I don't know. It was a very irresponsible thing. I didn't have any experience. I didn't know what that meant. But I liked to take pictures. It was also because of our age. We didn't have a lot of responsibilities. We didn't have money to pay. It was a bit of let's go and see. In 2010 I started two companies. We started Instanto Fotografia and I started a website programming company. Did you work for other people? Yes. Did you let them work for other people? No. I worked for a website company. It was a web development company. A good company. I worked there for four years. And then I quit. I worked in 2008, 2009. I took a programming course. I was the last programmer to work for his company. I was with him for a year. I think it was between 2009 and 2010. I don't remember. I quit because I wanted to work for myself. As Ricardo José Pereira says, I never had an honest job in my life. In that year I was working with that programmer. I was there alone. If it was 10pm, it was 10pm. He didn't know because he arrived late. He was responsible and liked what he was doing. I was with him for a year. But even with him, I got to the point where I said this is not for me. So I left. And I created a web design company. And I continued to work for him for a few more months. I really thought that company would be my bread and butter. And photography would be a fun thing to do here on the weekend. And it was more for me to entertain. A year and a half later, I closed the task of the website scene. And the instant went up. How old is Instant Photography? Around 14, 2010. Formally in 2010. When we created the brand and the website. And we started doing some sessions. How was it to work together? Were you dating? No, how was it at the beginning? Now it must be different. How was it to work together? The first 3 or 4 years? It was incredible. I think it was really good. I miss those times. When we were so... Very responsible. But more carefree. It was a very light thing. We had a great desire to do different things. That were not done a lot. We created a great connection with people. And between us, it was always spectacular. Because we walked around. We took pictures in different places. I think we never annoyed each other. I wouldn't say the first 3 or 4 years. I would say the first 6 or 7 years. Until 16 or 17. It was extraordinary. Because everything went well. It was one of those things. Not only everything was new. But everything was interesting. And everything went well. Everything was aligned. We always had the most spectacular couples. We went to the most spectacular places. And they are still spectacular. It's not new, but they are still spectacular. And for us, even in terms of business, our alignment, everything was spectacular in the first 6 or 7 years. What is interesting is this question now. Because at the end of 14, we have a different experience. And that's a cool part for those who are listening. It's just the beginning. Not everything is rosy. Not always rosy. Did you feel that it was going well? Or did you think it was going well? We knew it was going well. I think so. Elsa always had a certain pain. She was a little more worried. She was a little more worried. But we knew it was going well. We felt it was going well. The question of that anxiety was a little bit like when you finish a year and before the next year you have a period of rest. Usually we got to the end of the year with 60% or 70% of the next year reserved. So there was a period between September and October that was still a little uncertain. I took many years to realize that August is a silly season. Despite all the other jobs, everyone is on vacation. I worked in another company. It was all closed. You couldn't do anything in August. Logistics, warehouses, etc. But even in weddings it is curious how it is a silly season. You work because you have weddings but it is a silly season. There are few emails, there is little interaction on social media. It's funny. But basically that was it. It was light. At this time, I'm talking about 2016 and 2017, we already had two children. Beatriz was born in 2013 and João in 2016. We also have to say that this part continued to be light because we had our parents five minutes away from us. It was impossible to continue. In fact, what we did also gave you the scene of most of the time during the week you were with them and you could do small things that no one else could do. You were not with them on weekends. It was more like that, it was more on weekends. Although at that time we had more dreams than we do now. During the week. And sometimes we had very full weeks in the summer. Now we have this distance and it seems that everything was very light. And it was. But I remember and you probably remember when we left on Saturday it hurt a little. It hurt, but ok. From the moment we started I'm not saying it didn't hurt. Yes, yes, yes. But it was light. We are not saying it was the easiest thing in the world. It was a sport. But during the week we were a little more busy than we are today. The problem is not only ours. At the time Beatriz was a baby João was even more of a baby because they were in nursery. When they were. So if you didn't go to school they wouldn't go and everything was fine. From the moment Beatriz goes to the first year and now that João is already in the second and goes to the third you don't take a Monday and a Tuesday when you want. To be with them because they are in school. Yes, we do that a lot. With Beatriz we only took Mondays. With João too, but when he was born Beatriz was already in nursery. But in that initial part, in those first years in 2016, 2017, everything was very easy. We were always super aligned in terms of what to do in the moment. The type of images we wanted to make, where we wanted to be. It was all very easy. Ok, that was until 2016, 2017. More or less. How is it today? Because we are not going to talk about the pandemic again. No, because in the pandemic... But how is it today? Today that now they have already found another air that are already more inspired to photograph. Yes. Today it is easier again. I already know. And you, how was it? How were the last few years for you? The last few years were very difficult. For several reasons. Not only the professional part, the personal part. Our personal part also suffered some setbacks. They were easy and we ended up feeling bad. But... I think they were difficult years because at a certain point we distanced ourselves. In the sense that we probably wanted to do different things. At a certain point Rui wanted to do another type of thing. Photography left him excited, in the same way. And that, for me, was a very difficult phase because it was almost ending the love of photography. How did you feel about photography? I've always been very good at photography. There was a part, maybe even more recently, where I didn't feel motivated in the type of work I was doing or the type of marriage I was finding. In artistic terms, it was a part that maybe didn't satisfy my ego so much. But I've always been very good at photography. I think it's a place where I like to be. I've always wanted to do this, but I feel very comfortable. I think I found a way, my language. Returning to the presentation, I'm a social media licensee, like you. For a long time I felt that I had run away from my profession. Because from then on, social media are journalists, they are advertisers, they are public relations. And photography didn't fit this pattern. But today I think the opposite. I think that photography was my new way of communicating. I feel that sometimes things are easier to communicate in photography than through words or gestures. Although gestures can be in photography. That's why I'm very good at photography. Now, if you ask me if it's in any photography, no. I really need to photograph beautiful things to feel excited, to feel creatively excited. I realized over the years that I'm very aesthetic and I need beautiful things. From the whole business scene, what do you like the most? Just photographing? Yes. He clearly likes business. Yes. Do you like photographing? I do. I don't like the business part. You don't have to like it, everything is fine. I like it, but it's not what I feel most comfortable with. You like the business part in a very abstract and general perspective. You like the idea of charging well, to have the value, to do certain things, but you don't like anything that is the current management of a business. He starts to fall out of love with this. Because he's always been a business man. Yes, but he starts to fall out of love with the creative side. Here we all have blockages and such. But you were fine. I was. And you weren't even worried. No, I'm always worried. Even when Rubén is around. I'm always worried. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but I'm always a little worried. In fact, my concern at that stage was, if he doesn't want to do this anymore, how am I going to do this alone? Because, despite everything, I felt a little bit incapable. And yet, I already took that leap. Because we started to photograph many events separately, and that allowed me to take the leap. Because at the beginning, when we both started, I learned everything from him. I used to say that he was my master. It's true, I've said that many times. It's very funny that you're saying that. Because I have the ability to learn very quickly. And I couldn't understand where the beautiful light was. I could get there and photograph, but I couldn't identify, with the naked eye, where the beautiful light was. And he would do that to me. He would say, it's there. I would go there and photograph. I would do my magic. And when I started to photograph alone, that was my challenge. How am I going to know where it is? Nowadays, I think, it's so easy. It's so easy, how did I have that difficulty? Deep down, it's a limiting belief that I carried with me for a long time. Nowadays, I don't have it anymore, I've already done that cleaning. That's the most difficult part for me, of our relationship. I've said that many times. I loved that you dress up with a naked eye, the way I see you. Because your abilities are unlimited, but you have that tie that you put around you, and it's just annoying. And then when you worry, and stress, and all that, and you can't do it, it's just ridiculous. I know that every time... It's like a couple therapy. Exactly. But it's true that she... Three years ago you started to photograph... He sees you every day. He does, yes. In many different roles, for many years. Yes, she doesn't allow herself to be seen as being... She grew up in a way that being good, being better, or having abilities, is almost like being arrogant. She feels that she can't feel that she's good at a certain thing, or that she's beautiful, or that she's this. And this is a part that annoys me. You are all of that. But there was a time when... It's funny. I think it was three years ago that you started training. Yes, three years ago. You started training at a training school. And she was given two modes. Of marriage, of course, and of landscape. She bought books and went to courses on landscape photos. And I would tell her, Palerma, you're photographing... You've been photographing for 12, 13 years. And she put that limitation. And then when she did it, she realized that... There was nothing to know. It was a bit of a burden not to have training. Yes, that's the issue. You have that... I don't have specific training in photography, apart from one or the other workshop we did. We don't have training in photography. I don't consider that I don't know. I know, but there are some technical particularities of a certain type of photography. Namely, for example, landscape. Which were things that I didn't master. And I didn't feel totally comfortable. Because I understand that a trainer has to know the answers. And it was a very difficult period. Because I was really bad at it. I really thought it was going to be a real fiasco. But do you know what a trainer can say? I don't know now. I was trying to keep that in mind. But I thought I was going to make a bad impression. She added two things. She added the insecurity of thinking she didn't know certain things. To think that the trainers in front of her were from José Vilas up. But no. But I understand. There are people around us who sometimes say, if you didn't take a photography course, you don't have the right to be here. And then they talk about professionalization. And there's another issue. Rui has always been more technical than me. Always. That's the only difference. He has always mastered the technique of cameras, etc. And I've always been what I say. Even today I say to my trainers, I'm an intuitive photographer. Because I go by my intuition. And sometimes I photograph things based on what I'm feeling. Or particularly if we're talking about weddings. Actually, it's not just what you're feeling. You already have a visual training. And you watch movies, series, magazines. You read books. Because I was there. Sometimes I'm there. In the same place. And sometimes you do what you consume. It's the same reality. I'm watching movies and sometimes I say, I want to do this with a couple. I want to do this with a couple. But when you look for the beautiful light that he tells you to look for, if you're too technical... But you never thought, you want to do this with a couple, to watch the Zodiac movie, right? Maybe I could. Zodiac is the serial killer. But there may be an incredible plan. Yes, but don't do that with couples. Yes, I do. We were for a long time, and then we stopped doing it. No, the idea was mine, so I don't do it anymore. We were for a long time, we saw the trailer for the last Top Gun. And we saw a specific plan from Tom Cruise. We saw it and we decided to do it. And we did it a few times. And it was amazing. It's a gesture. I think it was the last Impossible Mission. I took a picture of the screen. There's a scene... They're not talking, but the way she's leaning. And the way he's talking to her. It was an amazing pose. And I did it several times. And sometimes I say, I'm going to do that pose from the Impossible Mission. It's kind of silly. But it makes sense. And they ask, which one? The one where Tom Cruise is holding the plane. That's very interesting. Because I'm also... Yves is the technical guy. I see beautiful things. And sometimes I can imagine what I want to do. I can't do it right away. And I did the thing of taking pictures. The last time I took a picture, I saw a picture I wanted to take. And I took it. I put the grooms in the same pose. I took a picture as I think it was taken. And I looked at the picture and said, this is not how I wanted it to be. But the pictures before and after were amazing. But the one I wanted to do... It's not just that moment. We have this knowledge. Just like we have, which I think is very good, is the ability to predict. I think I've talked about this with you. There's a scene where you have to predict. You have to anticipate. They always move in alliance, and then switch alliances. It's 10 minutes. In a period of 10 minutes, because they take a while, if it's not right away, and you see the look... You may not know the perfect technique, but the cameras help a lot. But you know what's going to happen. The father comes in, and you get behind her, and you put a little bit of her head, and you put the whole father, and you suffocate him. You're already being technical. But he may say, so you go there and put 2.0, put the focus, ISO 100... No, it wasn't technical. Yes, but I'm being basic, because we don't know who's who. At first, when I really felt that I knew little about technique, I could understand the technical part much more naturally. Which makes it much easier to get to a certain... If you want to do a certain thing, you can do it much more easily. But let's say one thing. You're talking as if there was a big difference. No, not at the moment. I was saying you were my master, because I learned a lot from you. Yes, but I also learned a lot from you. The big difference... No, I learned from you. I learned from you. There's a big difference between us and our personality. You can see that in the photograph. I'm a person more of structures, of organization, of routine, of construction, of planning. And it's natural that if I'm going to approach a photograph, I'm going with something in mind. Elsa is not a person of programming, of planning. She's a person of reacting. The day-to-day is like that. That's what she was saying about the lights and all that. I also, many times, I knew where the light was, but I couldn't always get it out of her. And that was the interesting part. I sometimes put them in a place, and that happens essentially in snowy sessions, not so much in weddings, but you have less control and all that. But it happened many times, like, I know the light is cool there, I'm going to put the dolls there, and I'm going to put you there, and you're going to do this. It happened many times, we both photographed a lot, and most of the photos that were delivered were hers. And this was something that was super funny. And it continued to be a reality. So, going back to that part of what was easier, of what was more difficult, a lot of this moved. Because at the beginning, before we started thinking too much, we knew we were going to a wedding, we never decided, you're going to do this, you're going to do that. But naturally, we always did certain things. Not now, because since we started doing separate weddings, when we're separated, we do what we have to do, and we hold on to what we have to hold on to. But in the first part, I did practically 70% to 80% of those photos that were supposed to be done. Elsa did 70% to 80% of those photos that were beautiful. And this was always a super natural thing. So much so that in 2016, because of João's birth, we talked to Elisa, we hired Elisa to replace Elsa in the maternity leave. Then we met Sony, we hired Sony, and it was a spectacular team that worked for two or three years, because Elisa is like me, and Sony is like Elsa. We didn't realize this right away, but then we realized that me and Elisa, in the same wedding, it was redundancy. Elsa and Sony in the same wedding, it was madness. The amount of photos, the amount of things. Soninha, incredible. She's as crazy as I am. Yes. We realized that I, the teams we made at the time, in those three or four years, it had to be either me or Elsa, or Sonya, or Elisa. And this was something that worked very well for a while. It started later, more recently, when I started to lose my motivation, when, as Elsa was saying, we started to find or receive less interesting weddings, in terms of what we wanted to do creatively. And then it started to be a little more difficult to manage, to deal with. In 2019 it was always calm, there was no problem. Then the pandemic intensified what was already there. The first time I told Elsa, the first time we talked about it, was in 2018. When I told you that I was tired of this, you have a moment for yourself, I'll find something else to do. I think it was around 2018. And that day, even if he had said I want a divorce. Yes, it was a conversation about love. It was very strange. And I told him, this is just our job, it's just our company. Because at that time we were already starting to feel... Neither Elsa nor I were able to do the same thing for a long time. In different ways and for different reasons, we needed to change it. But we were changing it in a different way. That's why I was telling you about the first 6, 7, 8 years. But then things happened that we weren't expecting. Even in relation to the business itself. When João was born, the postpartum of Elsa in Beatriz was difficult. The first month, month and a half, was difficult. And when she was pregnant with João, I told her, you won't go through the same. So in January 2016, which was the year João was born, we contacted all our spouses and we said, my boys, Elsa is pregnant, she is expected to be born at this time, she will have a 4-month maternity leave, so she won't go to your wedding. Right? Everything ok? And the guys said, great, we trust you completely. We had extraordinary spouses. But then she had a spectacular postpartum. Yesterday I was giving you details, it's not worth the details, but she had a spectacular postpartum. And we were still receiving wedding invitations. And Elsa said, look, I'm fine, I'm available. And we booked five or six more duplicated weddings that year, with the same prices. But then comes another problem that made us think, which at the time, we are repeating this conversation, we have already talked about it, which is what made us think, let's lower the prices a bit. Because if instead of doing 27 or 28 weddings, if we did the same, but in 14 dates, or if we did 30 in 15 dates, for us it's perfect. We are only far from the middle, 15 weekends, but we do the same, and we win the same, or we win more, and we start, let's take 100 euros from here, and then do a little pack, and we don't realize this, we only realize it retrospectively. Two or three years passed, and we realized that we were somewhere around 19, maybe, and we started high, for what we knew how to do, much higher, much more expensive than what we knew how to do. It was ingenuity, wasn't it? Yes, it was. There is something that I find super funny about guys who are the same age as us, or older, and they say, this new guy, now he comes in, and they think they can charge whatever they want. We can all charge whatever we want. In fact, they can charge 1000 euros, if it's the scene, I get embarrassed, I get indignant, and I think, but why? If someone paid him... Yes, completely. That's it, because we were, in 2010 or 2011, not in 2011, because in the end of 2011, we met personally, and not only, we met Andréia Sofia, we met Lounge, we met that whole gang, we met a series of photographers, and we started to have a group that inspired us, and we met professionals who were very good at photographing. But in 2009, 2010, when we were preparing to do this, we only met two, Matilde Berg and Eduardo Oliveira. They were the only two we met who weren't a photo of anything. They were the only ones who weren't a photo of anything. And then we had six weddings in 2011, which I still don't understand today. I mean, I understand because it was like that. It wasn't just us who felt that we were a nodule. Many brides also felt that. And basically what they felt was, I like what these two chromes want to do. I don't know if they have the capacity to do it or not, but I prefer to bet on them than on a photo of anything. It also helps the fact that you were very popular, you were super confident about what you were going to do. And it was something that at the time no one did, from what I know, I know no one did, maybe I know that they already worked that way, but no one promoted it as such. It was the fact that we were a couple. In 2011. There weren't many. And I don't know anyone who had as a promotion the fact that they were a couple photographing. And I think that brought a lot of comfort. But it helped the fact that we were very close in age. Yes, because I also realized this about the couple, we never sold ourselves as if we were a couple. We had the same age, and it's a good thing that we started so late. I wish I had started five years earlier. Me too. But I was their age, and they would say, ah, you were a couple, it was like a double date, or a triple date, because we had the photographers, they were also a couple. And I was like, let's have dinner together. I think that was a fact. I don't know if it still is today, but at the time it was. We used to say that we deceived your couples, right? Yes, that's what I was saying. They can only have been convinced with our goodwill, enthusiasm. They were enticed with what we wanted to do. Because the truth is one thing, sorry to interrupt you, there is one thing that I think the guys at weddings, because that's what we're talking about, that is forgotten, which is, I share a lot of the bride's quote. I even feel sorry that they don't send me all the videos, because when we were starting, as it was all new to us, we shared the quote. And I imagine that even now, a 25-year-old girl who is going to get married, and her friends are already married, her parents are of some age, and she says, I saw a dress, and they say, oh, you saw a dress? How many have you seen? 100? Oh, I saw a dress, I saw it in this magazine, I saw a photo, and the photographers came up to you and you said, show us, tell us everything you have. And what are you going to have? It's going to be blue, it's going to be pink, you're going to have flowers. Flowers is what you're going to have. And the dress. And what photos do you like? Entering that quote with them, which is something that is very easy not to forget, because we think, another dress, I've seen that dress three times, which happens sometimes, I get there and think, look again, the same dress. But I always say, and how beautiful, I love it. Sometimes it's very beautiful, a person loves it, most of the time. But there is no such situation, if you were young, it's easier. I think they convince me to buy things. Look, my product is really cool, I'm going to love working with you. I'm going to make you beautiful, you can't even imagine, and you come in. You know what gives me that great advantage of doing few? Because when we pass, you started in 2014, right? 12. 12. That is, a person does this for 10, or 12, or 14 years, but if you do 10, 15, 20, 25 weddings, despite everything, I mean, we have more than 300 or 350 weddings, but in 14 years, 350 weddings is not much. I know there are people who do this in two and a half years. If you do this in two and a half years, it's just a factory, nobody tells me you're excited to do something that you do 100 times a year. Every three days of the year, you're doing something. Even if it's eating French fries or sushi, if you do one every three days, you won't be excited at the end of the year. Sometimes I have a day and a half and in that day and a half I go into absolute silence, I don't see anyone, I don't talk to anyone because I need to clean to see the other and not be like, oh, you're dressed as a bride again, which is your job, she's not always dressed as a bride, but you're really happy. And social energy, I don't know, but I love my social energy, my social battery, which of course helps when you have less. We have another concept, we can talk about it later, we can do a podcast about spoons. Sometimes I don't have spoons for that, but it's another concept. Maybe the fact of having spoons for everything? Yes, more or less. No, like, you don't have spoons, well, I'll tell you, so everyone knows. Ivo is the one who told me this and it's kind of spreading among our friends, because let's understand that Ivo knows how to explain this better, he's going to hate hearing this, but it's the concept of your social battery. You have an X number of spoons in your drawer, you have an X number of mental spoons in a drawer. To have a small lunch for the kids, you need a spoon. A small lunch for the family, you need a spoon. To go to the gym you need another one, to go shopping you need another one, maybe if you want to go to the beach with the kids, in your case, you need 3 or 4 spoons. It's a whole package. It's a package. It's a package. I think this has to do with depression, which is even worse. And sometimes you realize you don't have spoons. I'm realizing it. It's the battery. It's a battery. The battery is discharging. You wake up with the battery, and sometimes you sleep badly, or you're tired, and you wake up with the battery in the middle. And it's the same in marriages. I'm a person, I'm socially competent, I like being with people. I'm socially competent. I take into account my mental issues, I have that ability. But I recharge by myself. You already know that. I recharge by myself. It's not at home, it's at home, by myself. It's usually at the bathroom. At the bathroom, also, by myself. And sometimes I go to the bathroom, do what I have to do, and leave half an hour later, or 45 minutes later, or an hour later. How do you know this podcast is already on it? We're already talking about the bathroom. It's like a friendship. You start talking about the bathroom. That's it. It's getting deep. But the point is, I need to recharge by myself. And when you have too much social time, and you don't have time to recharge the batteries, it starts to hurt you. There are people who are the opposite. There are people who recharge their batteries with people, and they can't be alone. It has to do with the way you exist, or how you do it. I also think that doing a lot of bulk weddings, you become a robot. Because I know what I have to do. I know what I have to do. But I also know if I do a few weddings in a row, it gives me more agility. Every year I feel this. It gives me more agility. Because from one wedding to the next, I won't be thinking about how the camera works. It's like when you get there in March or April, and you have to do the first wedding. This turns on. If I talk to her, it turns on by itself. What button does it turn on? It happens to me. I fix it. Sometimes I'm photographing the wedding, and I tell the grooms. With the camera on, it was so much easier. Or without the lens cover. How many times? A lot. We don't use the lens cover anymore. I have the lens covers. Yesterday I was trying to take off the lens cover. And I was thinking, how do you take it off? Because we put the lens cover on for another occasion. I'm the only one this weekend who finds out how to put the lens cover on. It's very bad to say that. I told her this weekend that I have a ball. Like Leandro, you also have a ball that coincides to spin. And I told her, the lens cover also has a ball. Because it was almost spinning. I spend a lot of time trying to put the lens cover on. It's part of my charm now. But this is your profession. You always bring new things. You're still with that scene. How do you put the lens cover on? I'm just kidding. Going back to the beginning. This ingenuity. Keeping the ingenuity. And that's exactly what happened in the last few years. In 2018 and 2019, I completely lost my ingenuity and enthusiasm. I felt that I already know how to do this. I already know how to do these images. It's done. It's over. And I didn't find anything that gave me the will to do the following. Then came 2020. The pandemic came. You run out of photos. And it was one of the best years I had. 2022 was spectacular. I didn't miss any photos. None. And then came 2021. I still had some memories. There were a lot of weddings in 2021 and 2022. It wasn't a lot for a lot of people. We did 32 in 2021. And we did 27 in 2022. But for me it was too much. And it brought a lot of things together. I was already down with enthusiasm. Too many weddings. Weddings of cool people, but creatively normal. In the same places. With the same things. The enthusiasm started to go down. And I said to myself, perfect timing. I don't want to do this anymore. I started to find other things to do. I started to photograph other things. And then you guys showed up. They brainwashed you. Completely. We've talked about this a lot. But that was it. And the naivety came back. Because you showed us what was happening. We were trying to survive. To have two kids during the pandemic. And to have a third one in 2022. We were trying to survive to this. In a healthy way. And we didn't understand what was happening in Portugal. In terms of weddings. We met. We had a conversation. Basically two of the hours was me listening to you. We listened to you. I remember perfectly the feeling. I had this expression. I don't know what's happening to me. I felt my head exploding. My mind was exploding. And we left. We came home in silence. I don't know if it was in the car. I don't know. Elsa said something like It was business. We talked about business. But it wasn't just business. It was the possibility to earn a lot more by doing a lot less. I used to joke that my dream was to have 50.000 euros weddings and two per year. But when you get to a point... I used to joke about this. When you get to a point where you realize it's here. In Douro. And this process of that lunch we had during the last months brought all the enthusiasm back. Because I feel we're starting. It's spectacular. I don't have the same enthusiasm. And then there's a cool scene. It's an alignment of things. Between me and Elsa. The type of weddings we want to do. The type of communication we want to do. Everything aligns. There are doubts. We still have some questions. We're different personalities and we'll always have doubts. But there was enthusiasm. And there's a excitement to do this again. On top of having the ability to do it. Because 15 years ago we wanted to do a lot. But we didn't know how to do it. Now you know what you can do. Yes. And the enthusiasm is brutal now. Because of that. The initial excitement is the same. We've been lucky because we make videos. Mostly videos. And suddenly we're there with very good people. And very different people. Yesterday we talked about this. Sometimes I think photographers don't give importance to videographers. Photographers are the ones who come to work in different ways. Photographers sometimes say I know how he is. I know how he shoots. You don't know. You don't know because I was next to him. People are different. People shoot differently. And they all bring a lot of knowledge. And in fact, everyone is very different. And it's very easy to stay in our aquarium. If the pandemic brought me something it was that whoever is in my aquarium doesn't want to know about me. Everyone was fighting for their lives. And we had to expand ourselves. And I sometimes feel a little hot if we expand ourselves. If I can now charge 5,000 fees if I can only charge 1,000 I'll charge 1,000 but I'll try. I'll try because in fact we didn't know. Everyone... Not everyone. A lot of people followed a wedding we did in Douro. It was ridiculous in terms of production. Very, very big. And for me it was incredible to look at the decoration and see the three or four biggest names we knew all working together. And look at the event as a whole and say, we are capable of this. You're talking about this now. We are capable of this. There's always the thing, no, and our clients don't want it. That's what I hear the most. My client doesn't want it. I understand there are economic circumstances there are different voices, etc. But for that there are different clients, different photographers. Some charge more, others less. People like us who prefer to pay more to a photographer to have a certain aesthetic. Other people say, no, I just want to pay less. It's not something that's important. There's always people like that. I didn't know. I said, I'll start and charge 2,000 euros. That's not how you start. Not in 2,000 euros. And the old guard. I could. Yes, but completely. You said these days, but I don't know if it was in an episode, that everyone should have more world. I think we started talking about that. And it's true. And that's what we lacked in these three years. In those three years we didn't have a world we were just at home. And when you have more world you realize a series of things. You realize how other people work. When you have these conversations like we're having here, you realize the ideas. I remember a conversation I had with André a few months ago that was very funny. You realized that everyone has the same pain. Sometimes the number is different. But it's exactly the same things. I just wanted to laugh. I thought I was practically booked by my fiancée's mother. I was all set. She sent me a table and all that. And then the fiancé called me asking if I could do something about the price and so on. And then he said we only have 8,000 euros for photography and video. And André said, everything is fine, but not for me. And I was thinking, 8,000 euros for photography and video is fine for me. It's great. But it was super funny to see André which is what I sometimes think when people say I have 4,000 euros for photography and video. It's fine, I understand. It's not for us. And of course, because we were already at that point, you had someone who said I have 2,000 euros for photography and video. And I remember that wedding where initially they were going to have two photographers and they were going to spend 70,000 euros on two photographers and then maybe 1,000 euros. And you think this clearly. The problems are the same, they just change the name. But they are realities. I'm not a person who spends 2,000 euros on a jewel. But there are people who spend 20 euros on a Havaianas, which are not expensive. I'm not the kind of person who spends that much. But there are people who spend 20 euros on a Havaianas and it's fine. And you might say I'm buying it for 3 euros. We give different values. As a company or as a professional you just have to decide where you want to be. It's not always easy to get there and you manage to put that. We are in a mentoring process to help us get to that point. And I think it's one of the things that we lack culturally. Since there are no shoes, there are no mentors. You have to have an apprentice. And we think that kids leave a university with 22 years and think they know how to do something. No, you don't know. We don't have this culture of learning. And that was one of my problems. I got there in 2018 or 2019 and I thought I already know how to do it. I don't need to do it anymore. But then you realize that there is a whole new world that you don't know about. And on the one hand it was a shock. How am I charging this with 14 years of experience? When a guy of my level in terms of quality and experience is charging 2 or 3 times more. Where did I get lost? Or a guy who is just starting is charging the same amount and even more than us. Where did I get lost? At first it was a shock, but then it was a realization that I can't do it. I just need to get used to it. You were saying that you didn't get tired. You can't do the same thing just with flash. This year I will do everything just with flash. I want to do it. I don't know if it will go well. It's also the beautiful part of art that we have to balance with the product you deliver. I had this conversation over the years. I think I found a balance. I think you have the extremes of I am an artist, I charge what I want and I do 3 weddings a year. And then there are others who think that they are service providers. I do what my fiancé wants and what he needs and I do 150 a year. These are the extremes, obviously. But even in emotional terms we balance it. We often have this conversation about what we do because our fiancés want it or because we want it. You are a service provider and you need to define your image first. Like Joana Vasconcelos. Exactly. She has art. Everyone recognizes her talent. But a lot of things are commissions. It's a commission. They are jobs that are asked. I want a giant shoe made of shoes. I want a piece within this theme. I don't know if it's how much it is or if there is a value of 200 thousand euros for a shoe made of shoes. It's a bit like that. First you have to define what is your aesthetic and then apply it to the service of someone who hires you to do it. If I want to do what I want if we are hired to do a wedding that person is the one who is hiring us. We have to understand what she wants and what she needs. I think this is a difficulty for me and for us. For us as a couple and as a company it was always difficult because we don't always feel the same. I think it's very important to satisfy our creative self. Even though we work for our fiancés and they expect a certain type of image and there are things that we know can't go wrong. But I feel a lot at the wedding that I have to satisfy my creative ego. And if I don't satisfy it I leave there a bit unmotivated. Now I'm going to test you. What if your job was just to photograph other things and not the important ones? They are waiting. Imagine you could specialize in a niche. You would only deliver black and white photos of moments that were not what I was expecting. I have to talk a lot but let me just say this part and then I'll say it again. And this is the funny point that what we perceive to work is exactly that. I do what is expected. I photograph the people in front of me. I photograph the portraits. When the grooms want to photograph everyone, I do that. I do the right things. I like to do them. I like to do it in a certain way. And she often tells me that she would like to be a second photographer. And now we are getting to a point where this makes sense. Let me be the central figure. Whoever wants to talk, talk to me. Organize things with me. Everything is fine. And you go there and do your magic without being stuck to things. If we are separated it's one thing but together we can do this. How many weddings did you do this year? Six. I mean, when the episode came out we were already doing seven. How is it going, Elsa? This year it's going great. It was terrible. It's a challenge. In terms of the couple, we are working very well together. I don't think we have worked like this for a long time. We made our peace and we found a balance. His scene is really about doing a job that is not predictable but safe. It doesn't mean that I am not able to do it and he is not able to do the opposite. Everything is in the middle and I am happy. I have more space to create. My challenge this year is to try to do different from what I used to do. I started to get bored with my own images. A beautiful bride, a beautiful portrait, but what's new here? Trying to look in a different way. Maybe using more flash which was something we started to close the diaphragm. Exactly. We had lenses that were all 1.2 L. And I would say, we didn't buy a camera that goes to 1.2 L to be photographed at 2. A lens. A lens that goes to 1.2 L to be photographed at 2. So our lenses were at 1.2 L. Your wedding... No, it's not true. All of them. Mine was. Mine was, and yours was at 97%. It was at 1.2, 1.2 L, but it was really a bit of our image. And now, the goal is to get out of this. But get out completely, or a little bit? No, not completely, because my aesthetic is still editorial. I can't change it, because I look at other things and I realize that this is what I like. And I don't like weddings that are more... How can I explain it to you? Disorganized. I like a tidy room. I like everything a little more delicate, more thought out. That I don't have to take 27 cabins out of a room. I have to be totally chaotic. That doesn't make me... It doesn't excite me in the same way as a cleaner concept. But, when... Let's imagine, this has already happened, in 20 weddings, when there is one that is totally the opposite, I love it. Because at that moment, the opposite is everything I've already done. There is an aesthetic that I feel more framed, but from time to time I love to do a totally documentary work. When you don't even have room for more. That's a challenge for me. And I like these challenges. It's like when we're going to shoot a wedding, we have a certain expectation and that goes wrong. And let's assume that in that wedding we only have one interesting thing, which is the bride. My challenge is, and I have to make an amazing wedding, publishable, in which it doesn't seem like I'm only photographing the bride. I'm not only photographing the bride, of course. But in which I'm trying to focus a little more to do certain things. That's my challenge. When we have weddings that run away from our aesthetics, the challenge is how I'm going to make this my aesthetic. I learned this from Carlos Ferreira many years ago. In a wedding we did in Sintra, back in 2014. If I don't like any of this, how do I make this beautiful? That's the challenge. That's the teaching that Elsa leaves for today. I don't know if it's a teaching, it's just my strategy. To satisfy my creative ego. That's all. What do you mean? No, because that wedding was... Just so you don't have any doubts, that wedding wasn't successful. It was. It was never published, but it would have been successful. But it wasn't. She tried. That wedding was beyond publication. It was a wedding... I don't agree. It wasn't for the grooms. We did the bridal session the day before and they had that rock chic look. Bottledock Martins, we're in 2014, black dress, super good vibes, leather jacket, super good vibes, super rock chic, the couple, super hot. The next day, you had a 7m veil, or 6m, you had a white limousine, one of those old American ones, a Chevrolet that didn't have the bride. She couldn't even walk on the street. You had the wedding dresses, for us to photograph. It was the bridal dress. In that specific wedding, it wasn't... We never heard about those grooms. I don't know if they have the photos. I think they never contacted us again. The feeling we had was this wasn't for them, this was for her mother. In that specific case, there was nothing creatively interesting. Mainly because you knew one of the things that excites us, the bride loves this watch, she loves that, that jewel. Even if you think that's not interesting, you go for her enthusiasm. I'll do my best, because I know this is important to her. In that wedding, you think, nothing is important to them, because they don't want to know about it. That's why it takes a while, you do your best, we worked a lot, but it was one of those specific ones. And I didn't even challenge that. During the day, for many years, I said my motivation was the bride's dress. If the bride's dress was amazing, I'd wear it all day long. If the bride's dress wasn't amazing, I'd be frustrated at the beginning of the day. And it was a bit annoying, because not all dresses are amazing, or not all dresses fit amazingly. It's not just your aesthetic. Exactly. So I had to go back to this. First, not having expectations, and when something goes well, I try to focus on that. Not only on that, because people will think I only have a bride's dress, I only photograph the bride, I don't photograph anything else. But I try to give a new look according to my aesthetic. But it's a disclaimer. If you think a wedding is not visual, and you're judging it visually, which is a mistake, even if you go after the feeling, it's a photograph. It's something you see with your eyes. It's visual. I'm not even talking about that part. The feeling part is... Yes, but it's always visual. If you like it more. A bride, even a virgin, before meeting her boyfriend, before thinking about getting married, dreams of looking beautiful with a beautiful dress. That's the dream. I'm not saying the image is superficial. No, it's not. All that's there is the creation of the image for the day of a party. Even if you like a wedding where everything is messy. You like that aesthetic, you like something that is visual. You know what Ana Luisa describes as the decadent light? It's a style of image. You can think it's a cake, all broken, it's an aesthetic. I don't particularly like it, but it's relevant. Those who are photographing like that. We are attracted to what we like. The fashion of dark glasses at night is useless. It's just because it's cool. You like that. It's all image. Let's say that two years ago at the last Courage Fest in Guimarães, you came with me in the afternoon and we went to see the day in Santiago and there was a strobe and I couldn't take it anymore. I said, let me see those glasses. I put on the glasses and I was much better than with the lights of the show. Because it was being too much for me. And then I said to him, besides that, I should have brought the tampons. I enjoyed the music better, I was very high. And then we went to the disco part with Nuno Lopes as DJ. I was very good in sunglasses. I don't know if they are not interesting. I didn't even want to be with you. The strobe makes me sleepy. It's the strobe, right? It makes me sleepy. It's always in a scene, it goes through your eyes and it makes me sleepy. And it was bothering me. So now I think it might be useful. Ok, it might be useful. I think so, because now people wear flashlights and sunglasses. They help. I think it makes sense. And also, the trend this year is to wear sunglasses on the tip of the nose. Always. But that comes from the influencers, right? But at night they are there. It's the trend of my grandfather. And then you look and say, it's cool. I like it. It's a little bit different. We need new clothes. By the year we will be fed up. I was fine without sunglasses on my brides. Nobody wants to photograph a bride with sunglasses on. But you know, naturally we all have some bifes with certain trends. But I think they are cool. As long as it's not to refresh you. Of course. And I think some of them we are having now. But we consume a lot. Because if you are a bride who is getting married in 2025 and this year you start to see the Instagram of your photographers or you are looking for a photographer and suddenly they show you 10 pictures of the brides with sunglasses and you say, I want it, it's so cool. You are just watching. By the year you get married, you put on sunglasses and your photographer will do this. But he will take the picture. Things take time. There is a certain delay. And the brides live a year, a year and a half in this world. Yes. That's why it's funny to think that you have brides who say I'm going to do a super cool scene that I saw at the wedding. Super different, sparkles. Or like, let's throw balloons. I don't know, do they still throw balloons? I don't know. Or there is more environmental awareness. I think there is a little bit more. I hope there is. Because it's a terrible scene. I haven't seen it. I was at a wedding in the summer and at that time you were in a 5th floor and you see 7 groups of balloons in the air. I haven't seen it. Important question. We are already... I didn't say anything else. What will be the moment for the year? Because I already realized that there will be things. Elsa, for you, what will be the moment for the year? What this year... Jacob, all these balloons. This year... At least what they expect. This year they are both breathing. Yes, this year... Sometimes we are a little bit suffocated. At least I feel I'm a little bit suffocated. Why? Therapy. I still feel that I suffer a little bit with the uncertainties. And this year has been particularly difficult. Responsibility. That's what I told you the other day. If this was 10 years ago and I didn't have children or a series of responsibilities probably this year it wouldn't be so difficult. But I feel we have some responsibility. Some responsibilities taken. We have 3 children. The fact that we are making so many structural changes has a weight. It has a weight in our work at this moment. What we are trying to do for the future. I believe it will lead us to a much happier path. Successful, etc. At this moment I can't say it's not a difficult year. It is a difficult year. Sometimes I feel I'm not breathing well. I'm still a little bit under water. But next year I believe things will be better. At least I have this expectation that we will be new. We are here in a chameleonic process. We are changing. For the next year we will be wearing new clothes. Maybe even in photographic terms. Maybe we will refine a little bit. A new posture in the market. I believe so. Does that excite you? Yes, a lot. More than fear? Yes, a lot. It's a difficult balance. It's a difficult balance. You have a lot of excitement and a little bit of fear. I'm much better now. People want to work at work. I know. I don't know if you understand anything about signs. I'm a Capricorn. Capricorns are people who have a great impact on me, because they create a lot of uncertainty. I really like what I do. I always think if my actions are not harming the future. Sometimes I have this... I don't think I'm harming but I have this... Your accounting agent says if you try and fail, you won't be in poverty. No, no. It's not the fear of poverty. It's the fear of not doing what I like. Or not being able to... You like to take pictures. Will you do the same? Yes, I think so. We all change one thing or another. This year I want to try to take only one photo. We experiment every year. What can go wrong? If you get hired or not. It's not overnight. We're making big changes. My fear is that they won't hire me. But there's also that things can take some time. It's not that they won't hire me. You didn't do anything and they hired you. This is the end of the avenue. You didn't do anything in the last few years. You didn't do much and you kept working. Yes. I know you're going to feel that you're going to do a lot and maybe... What do you mean? Your focus will be there. But I think you should go for the excitement. I'm very excited. If it's to fail, it's to fail thoroughly. It's not like that. The beginning of the year was more difficult. We went through the desert for me. Rui doesn't have the same... He doesn't see it the same way. You don't feel bad that I'm you in my relationship. He's the positive thought in person. It's like that. Fortunately he's like that. If he was like me, I don't know what we'd be doing. He's the positive here in the relationship and everything. He's also the business man. It's a good thing. At the same time that a lot of people know you, a lot of people have no idea who you are. It's possible. The clients are always new. Your clients this year probably know more or less where they came from or photographed someone they knew or someone recommended them or even got a post on Instagram. They're always new. If they came here and you said I'm a black and white person and cameras from the last century. It's easy now. Cameras from the beginning of the last century. It's all in fashion. They might say Joana told me you were cool. Let me tell you this story. It tells a lot about this journey that Elsa is talking about. I'll even put the numbers. There it is. We always talk about money. It's not taboo. What happened was our historical average in the last five years of marriage was 2,100 euros. Just to remind you in the first marriage we had in 2011 we charged 1,800 euros. Yes, França. Because of what was happening. When we realized this we were more alert. When I went to the documents I saw this. We didn't realize this. We were at this average. After this journey at the end of last year the conversation we had I said this has to be changed. It has to be changed. I got home and the next few days I was doing the math and it was double. At that time the table we still have is the one from 2024 because we have another one for 2025 it's 3 PECs 2,900, 3,600 and 4,900. And there was something that Elsa and I had already talked about that Elsa had called my attention and it was that now no one comes to us asking if I came from that wedding or if I took a picture of my friend or whatever. It hasn't really happened and it's a bit strange but then you realize that nowadays things are a lot more... There are two points. First, you have more access to things because of social media and then you have less of that habit if you took a picture of my sister she doesn't want you. On the contrary, if you took a picture of my mother she doesn't want you. And we really didn't have that. And this together was something that made us feel and although I'm not a religious person I believe that there is some organization in the world and in a bigger universe than us that we don't understand. Your brain wants you to believe because you're a planning guy that likes everything right and I believe that things happen for a purpose even if you only realize it in the end. I think that things are moving for certain things to happen. And that was a validation that I had in this story I'm telling you. Because some... I don't remember exactly but we had we changed the press and they were grills for three months, three or four months. I think it was four. In which nothing happened. They came and asked for the budget, sent the table and grills. And I was making an effort to keep calm. And in reality I wasn't afraid but I thought if this continues like this, something has to be done. That's it. A few times later I don't remember exactly when we received an email. I remember perfectly because I was in the kitchen preparing the food for the kids and Elsa was on the computer and she just told me, love, what is this? Come here. What's going on? Just to say that we wanted to book your service and we wanted the back of €4,900. And we said, what do you mean? Who is this bride? Who is she? I don't know, I don't remember the name. I don't have any reference. It had already been an email. I don't know if it was two weeks, three, I don't remember. I know there was some time difference. And then we answered the email and we had that conversation and she told us you took a picture of my brother's wedding in 2018 and for me it was a scene to say this was that validation to say you are not a fool you have the value for this. People recognize this value and what you did in the past continues to work for you. So it's not worth giving up, it's not worth stressing. This is going to happen. This is going to happen. The greatest notion of the importance of that moment in our lives. If you hear this, you'll know. Yes. But the truth is that it was a breath of fresh air. We're not crazy. And then, in the meantime, we've already booked two more. And we're still a long way from the end of the year. What does this mean? These are the things that, even when it's scary, if you think it's the right thing to do, it's not. And we did this. And for me, it's a little easier. I admit it is. For Elsa, I know the weight this causes her. I'm sure this causes her. Also, our upbringings were different. Our lives were different. Her parents' lives were different. In other words, there's a different life story that makes her grow up in a more difficult environment. And if there's a difference... Yesterday you were here, my mother-in-law only exists for work. And when she called me, she was almost upset with me because I went to pick her up later because she came to iron our clothes. And I said, take it easy. If you don't iron it today, do it later. And she said, but you have to iron it, and the clothes have to... In other words, Elsa's parents only came to work, they had a difficult life, they only came to work and were able to catapult in an astronomical way the reality they had and the reality their children had. That's why my mother-in-law doesn't understand the level of life and tranquility we have today. She can't understand because in her head she never lived that. And it's natural that some of these fears that her parents had as a child have been overcome. And it's natural that Elsa feels some of these fears even though in reality it's not even a possibility. So all of this is understandable. But really, this e-mail... Hold on, my friend. Next comes the impostor syndrome. I also have that sometimes. We all do. This was Hugo from Narvi Films, who is also from Guimarães, he asked me, I don't know how long ago, but he asked me a long time ago, he said, so now that you charge more, and I wanted to say, now, every year we try to charge more, but he said, now that you charge more, what's the difference in the product? I said, none. That's what scared me the most. Suddenly, we're always very nervous, oh my God, why did they pay 5,000 euros now? Because last year they charged 1,800. Now they're paying us 5,000 euros, I have to pay more, I have to hire a third person, I have to make a beautiful wedding box, I have to spend more on all of that. No, you don't. We've already had that conversation. You don't, but the truth is, you don't. One thing is, if you look at the wedding and think, 400 guests, I have to take a third photographer, and they're paying me whatever it takes, I'm going to take it because I want to. I want to have that security. You can make decisions, I think I need this. Your work will be the same. It's not bad, your work is good already. Your work will be the same, because the client hired you based on what you do, but for me that was the hardest part, saying, oh my God, they're paying a lot now. Let's think about this analogy, you have several options, I'll choose a more common one. Imagine, Ed Sheeran is going to do a show, and he's going to do a show in Wembley, or he's going to do it in the desert. The question is, what do I have to do? Maybe Wembley is more prepared, it's naturally able to have better acoustics, so the production costs, I don't know anything about that, but I imagine they're brutally different, putting Ed Sheeran playing in Wembley, than in the desert. What he's going to do, the experience he's going to give you, it's the same thing. If you play football, it's the same thing. The goal is to win. Instead of having a certain team, and a certain tactic, it's something else. The goal is always the same, and our goal is to make a collection of images, or in your case, a movie, or images. The goal is, the product I'm going to deliver to my boyfriends, has to have the highest possible level. If for that I need more people, more time, of course, these are decisions that each of us has our own, but the goal is always the same. I remember, I think it was at that lunch, I don't know if it was at that lunch, but you also told me something that stayed with me. It was at that lunch. I was already doing some experiences, I needed to normalize certain values, that in my head were not normalized, because for me, more than 3,000 euros for a wedding, was a crazy thing. And I needed to normalize other values, so I was doing packs for 10,000. And I was saying this, and I was thinking what I needed to put for 10,000. And you said, nothing, exactly the same as you have now. And I thought, what do you mean? But then you think about it a bit, and yes, because... I'm in that exercise, creating an impossible package. Because people are hiring the most expensive. So I thought, I have to create the impossible. But do you know what is the example I often think about? And I think it makes all sense in relation to this. Especially for us who capture. It's completely different to talk about a cake designer, to talk about a designer, to talk about a florist. They will create things, we will not create anything, we will capture what exists, and in our way, we will assemble that to be something. But we will capture what already exists. So what is our value is different. We will do the same thing. But in the same way, if I take a package to wash and they ask me 10 euros, I accept, everything is fine. If I take a Rolls Royce of 25 million euros and they ask me 10 euros, I don't trust. Because the responsibility... If I were there, I would wash a package for 10 euros. And I didn't charge less than 500 euros to wash a Rolls Royce. The responsibility you have in your hands is completely different. So if you have a normal wedding, a Portuguese wedding, a very traditional thing, where maybe the bride and groom spent 40 or 50 thousand euros, you have a responsibility. If you have in front of you a wedding where the budget was 1 million euros, your responsibility is brutally different. You have to charge more because you have more responsibility. And this completely changes the way you think. I don't have to do more, I don't have to have more photographers, I don't have to deliver more photos, I don't have to be there for more hours. This experience and this big production in Douro, and I'm not going to say me, I'm going to say me seeing the photographer working, were two photographers who acted... Normally. Exactly, normally. They even did less than I was expecting. And this thing of less, I think we also talked about it yesterday, in the last two years I go to a wedding and I think I have to bring down the spirit of Amarro and Xavi, and I'm not going to run. Because what she said, why do I have to run? You don't run at weddings. She doesn't. Why should I run? Really, why should I run? And sometimes I say, but I have to run. There's a moment when I think you have to run. When you're going to film the bride from the back, and you want to go forward, and so you can film the groom's reaction, and I'm focused on the bride's entrance. That's the only moment you can run. The rest, we have to walk more, we have to go up and down, prepare the cables, prepare the audio, but we don't have to run. Because the best photographers I know don't run. So a thousand things happen, and you're in a corner, still in Douro, a thousand things were happening, and he was calm. He looked like this. And he told me, and I thought, Greg came to the groom's room and put the camera down. And he was talking to her mother. Her mother was crying. He didn't photograph her. He was talking to her. He knows what to expect from him. That certain photographs are expected. And he came and put the camera down. And he said, I also put it down. It was kind of liberating. And it's cool. She's crying. It's normal. It's kind of liberating. You're there, you can have the client talking to him. And I thought... I don't know about this story, but I like to do that. Not necessarily to use it when I get there. I take the camera, and I go there and say hello. In our scene, we're with the groom, we say hello, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. But when you go to work, before you start, and you put the camera down, it's like being here with the phone. I thought, I'm going to try it. That's why it's cool to be in communities. And to talk to people. I feel that. I never get close to a bride and groom with the cameras. I may not have a backpack on my back, but I'm not there to photograph. I'm there to say hello, then say hi. Everything's fine. But it's normal to have a kid who's like, what if the mother is crying? But you know I don't feel that. I think I'd get nervous. Yes, she gets nervous, but I don't. I say this a lot, I think the most important thing to work on at weddings, whether it's the photographer, the photographer, the videographer, the wedding planner, I think you need to be more of a psychologist than what you're doing. And I really believe that, because those people will see you there all day long. And I think you get there and say, I'm a person, I'm here, I'm doing a service, but if you need me, I'm here. But I imagine Camal is more of a documentary. Yes, but we have colleagues... Yes, but I don't want to talk about it, I want things to happen. It's a different strategy, it's a different type of work. We have colleagues who enter the room with the camera in their eyes. I think it's a matter of personalities. Yes, of course. For me, this doesn't work, because I'm a person, not a machine. And I think I like to create that connection with the person, because if you do that, it'll be easier for me all day long. I've been on both sides. It also depends on the person and the client. I've been in marriages where I was just a service, and I came in with sympathy. So it's a service. So you adopt the position of service and you adopt another position. She answered, but you didn't. What will it be in a moment? I was asking, I didn't forget. Yes, yes. Everything she's saying will be new. And then... I think I can say this. You're a free man. You just turned 40. Take this as a... It'll be the crisis of my age. The crisis of my age. For the moment. He's a bit old. But what will it be? There will be a new brand. I won't say exactly what it is, but there will be a new brand. The moment won't disappear, but it will be re-placed. Re-configured. Re-placed for the punishment. For the punishment. Because you're bad. No, we'll make a distinction between the two areas that we like the most. But with... We'll adapt the things. We'll put the things in the drawers that should be there, and we'll give them the names and the directives they should have. So it will be something... Even because the name is in Portuguese. It will be something local, more for our clients and people who have known us for 14 years. And a new brand will emerge that will attack a different market. And just because of that, it's a huge enthusiasm for me. Because I love starting new things, so the idea of having a new brand... Yes, I love new projects. A new brand, a new logo, new photos, new website... A colleague and a wife, in this case. Which is good for me. It's good for me. That doesn't change. Ok, let's continue. And that's why it's a part that excites me a lot. Because I think it will be the alignment, the realization of the alignment we're having now. We have a lot of conversations. Some of them came from the past. Others started with the mentoring with Jasmine. All of this is happening. The conversations are happening and we're aligning things. And that alignment for me is brutal. Because even if we disaligned in that period, we disaligned a lot of things. It's a difficulty. Those who don't work as a couple have no idea. Or those who are starting have no idea what will happen later. It may not happen now, but it's very unlikely. Especially in our case, where none of us have a different authority about the project. For example, in your case, although you don't have different authorities, the truth is that Ivo is the guy of the video. And you entered a project, you did yours, now it's yours, but you have different areas. We don't. Everything we did happened exactly without any of us having a moral authority about the moment. Which sometimes makes you simply pause. When a company has two partners. A company with two partners. There are some legal issues. There are some companies that have to have five partners. They can't have two or four. And usually you have three or five. There's always a draw. And when we're talking not only as a company, but as a couple, when things start to distance, there are a lot of draws. And when there's a draw, you don't go to a site, instead you stay in the middle. And that's the worst thing that can happen. And it happened to us many times, in many situations. And do you think it was what was happening? No, it was. The packs we make, how to link, how to pdf. The most mundane things. Because it's very difficult to manage when you also have your wife in front of you. Of course. When everything is fine, we had a period where it was spectacular. We had the office at home. And it was spectacular. Because we got upset at work. We got home at 6, we kissed and that was it. We lived our lives. But when everything is fine, when you start to have some problems that are a bit more difficult to manage, your emotional load gets mixed up. And suddenly you're upset at work because you got upset in the morning. Or we have a problem that we got upset on our wedding day and we haven't spoken for 3 days. Sometimes I say that I have to choose if I'm upset with my partner or my husband. True. The problem is that it's difficult. Because what we sometimes discuss and get upset about has to do with our way of being in life. Right now it can be applied to work. But maybe tomorrow it can be applied to our day-to-day. What investments are we going to make now that we're renewing things in the moment. Or how are we going to manage the investment we have in our lives. They are completely different things. And we had difficult periods. Difficult periods. A lot of discussions, a lot of love. A lot of breaks. That I think, fortunately, are disappearing. Because there's always a process. We're much more aligned than we ever were. And this is the exciting part because it's great for our relationship. It's not only cool for the moment and for what comes next. But it's also cool for us as a couple. Sofia and André do something that I think is wonderful. I think I mentioned it in the episode. Every year they have a meeting. They go together and talk business. We should do that. But it doesn't work. Because if we go out with the kids they fall asleep. What happens to us constantly is that there's a conversation that happens and comes up and we go on vacation and the three of us are sleeping. It's not the same. Because last year when we go on car trips it's also like that. We change a thousand things but then I don't write them down and then I forget. Or I say, let's do this and it stays in the middle. I know that. But that's not where I wanted to go. I think what Sofia and André do is spectacular and I think we have to find a way to do it too. But the problem is not that. The problem is that the inspiration and the inspiring conversations we need another one to organize what we have. But it gives me pleasure to have these conversations again. Because we had periods where we couldn't talk about work because we got bored. It was hard. It was hard. Sometimes it's still hard but nothing comparable. And this big change is all about alignment in your life. You align what you want to do and it's such an important part for us because we work together. You align this and suddenly everything becomes easier. You know where you want to go. The decisions are just to achieve what you already feel. It was a change. For you it's all about excitement. For me it's all about excitement. Especially because I look around and say I have an extraordinary life. I don't have much to complain about. I have three wonderful, healthy children. Nothing to complain about. As I said yesterday, I spend the whole day with them. With three or two of them. At the end of the day I get tired. But they are saints. I have a wife from another planet. Wonderful at all levels. Even in difficulties. In peculiarities. I love her more than anything. By the way, she is my priority not my children. This is a reality. I'm a healthy guy. I'm a decent and normal guy. I have healthy parents. Unfortunately, five years ago I lost my father. It was a difficult process. But my mother is fine. With the difficulties. My parents are turning 70. Her mother is 77. We have normal difficulties. I don't have a problem with money. If something happens to our job, I know I would have a lot of time to get back and recover. So I look around and say everything is fine. Everything is great. I can only look forward. Especially with these small validations that were very important. To have this reservation here and there. To create this podcast that brought me what I don't have with photography. to talk to people and this relationship that I needed, that I didn't have. At this moment, I only have enthusiasm for the future. I only have the same enthusiasm for the future. Work, tiredness, less sleep. But I'm really excited. I think 2025 will be a spectacular year. So much so that, and to finish this monologue, this year, I'm not the only one turning 40, as we've been married for 10 years. But as it's a year with little liquidity, we have a lot going on, a lot of investments that we're doing, Pedrinho is still very young, we decided that this might not be the right time to make a big investment. And I told them, let's do it like... Pipoca Mais Dois, she celebrated the... 40 plus 1, something like that. So, for the year, things will be calmer. With more time, we'll make a big investment. For my 40 plus 1, maybe we'll make a big investment for her 40 plus 2. Because she turned 40 and Pedrinho was 15 days old. There wasn't a lot of space for parties. And maybe, for the year, we'll make the 10 plus 1 for the wedding and we'll make a big scene. So, right now, I'm just excited. Rui's enthusiasm is incredible. Don't you get happier? Not you. No, I love him. When he was unmotivated, it was very difficult. Because seeing someone unmotivated by your side and not being able to bring them with you, it's terrifying. I don't know how to explain it. But I couldn't motivate him. Because it's his thing. And it was very difficult. So, I love him. Since his eyes started shining again, it's incredible. So, I know that sometimes I'm just a hindrance. How do you see the podcast? The podcast? How do you see it? Do you have this idea? Do you plan things? I think it's spectacular. He had this idea a long time ago. It was in the drawer. I knew it was something he would shine in. Because he's that kind of person. He likes to talk. He always has the best teachings. I have a friend who says that... I'm making a small parenthesis. He's known among friends as Capi. I don't know if you've talked about it. Capitão. He says that when Capi talks, everyone stops to listen. When I met him, it was like that. He was having dinner with his friends and he talked and his friends stopped to listen. So, I know he's that kind of person that when he talks he's captivating. He's very good with words. He genuinely cares about others. He's genuinely developing this work thinking about the community. That's why I encouraged him to do it. I haven't helped him much. I haven't helped him at all, to be honest. But I felt it was a path he had to do alone. Because when he shines, he shines alone. It's totally his thing. Are you enjoying watching me do it? I'm enjoying it a lot. I thought it was a joke. He also felt that he needed to talk to other people. He was tired of talking to the same audience, which was me. You and the mutes. Exactly. He needed a more diversified audience. And I think this is totally his thing. And I really believe that WACK and photography can come together and fill some gaps that he felt in his life. Because he has all this way to deal with people. Because he genuinely cares about them. The questions he asks. He doesn't have second intentions. He's not here to promote. He's not here to promote the institute or anything. www.instituteofphotography.com His goal is, in the most honest way possible, to elevate the community and to have conversations that we feel we only have backstage. Very few. Because we only talk to our bubble. It's an opportunity to meet incredible people. But I feel that this part of knowledge, this exchange of experience, was something he missed a lot. He missed this exchange. And this vehicle of communication, which was the podcast, which can be many more things in the future, is totally comfortable. And is it bringing you good things? To me too. Because I'm watching him happy. It's amazing. Sometimes I listen to the podcast. Not always. When he's recording. Because I only listen to him. I don't listen to the other people. And sometimes I see, you talked very little. And this is in a positive sense. You're really dedicated to listening to people. A lot of people I know feel that people are there just to talk about them. Deep down, they have another person on the other side. But they just want to talk about them. And this is disgusting. A lot. And I believe a lot, and I think the acceptance of the podcast is proving this, that this is not the intention. The intention is genuinely to listen to other people. He doesn't talk much. I've heard a lot of people saying that they would like to hear him. Because there's also a box of surprises. He's a box of surprises. He's going to come up with a story, a situation. When people start to realize this, the subscribers will start to decrease. The more I talk, the more people will leave. Do you want to ask him something? Do you want to be the interviewer? I don't know. But I can... Ok. I'm a person that sometimes has this... You can ask whatever you want. Ask whatever you want. Do you have another episode of Vanessa Show? The question is a little bit in Vanessa's segment. A little bit more long term. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? In 5 years, where do you see yourself? In reality, you forget a little bit. You can put it in the equation if it makes sense. If it doesn't... Is this your way of taking revenge? Yes! We're always asking this question. Why do you ask me this? I don't like to think about the future. Things come, I do. I'm like that. He's always asking me this question. It's not a revenge. It's not a revenge for you. But I believe you have something in your mind. I'll say it in parts. I had planned this. No, you didn't. But I'll say it in parts. First, I see myself with you better than ever. I really think it's not just to look good. Even us, it wasn't a tradition in the desert, but we also had difficult years. And I think those years are coming to an end. The future will be much easier. Lighter. And I think it will be beautiful. It scares me a little bit to think that at that time we will have a daughter with 16 or 17 years old. It scares me. But I think in that field I also see good things. Because we are creating three extraordinary creatures. And every day I spend with them I get more excited. We get more excited and we realize that we are doing something good. In the personal part, it's here. Then, professionally speaking, I see myself photographing weddings with as much or more enthusiasm than I do now. Because I think in that period of time we will have space to align ourselves more and more. We will be able to be in the places where we want to be and do what we want to do in the quantity that we want to do. The 10 or 12 that we talked about. You told me this yesterday, Vanessa. I will say names that are not worth it. The son of a photographer who did many weddings where you met and said that you also do this. I don't particularly like it but I'm making some changes to see what I do with my life. I don't want my children to go through what I went through because I never saw my parents. That's the last thing I want. That's why I always want to do this number, 10 or 12 weddings. I think it's perfect for us. And for me, personally. And then, I think that Raman Tuwaku was something that was meant to stay. And it's funny because for years I asked this question. And now I haven't planned for 5 years. I haven't planned for 5 years because... Do you have a plan? Yesterday, Vanessa was trying to ask me what I wanted to do next and I said, wait, which of the things? I have 5. I'm having a hard time finding priorities. You are in a phase where you have a lot of things. Yes, there are a lot of ideas and things are so interesting but I'm only one and although there are a lot of people helping the reality is that I'm the only one doing things so there's no time for everything. And that's good. But what did this teach me? It was something I learned with you. I was the person who said, ok, it's to think ahead but things have to start now. And I looked at the perfectionism from 5 years ago and even the very example of our preparation for this podcast to set up the cameras and all that, Vanessa was always asking me but do you like it like that? Is it ok? Is it perfect? And I said, this is an experience, let's do it. And that was a big change I made. I have an idea of how I'm going to be in the future but I had no idea that I would be in this moment 4 or 5 months ago when I started WACK. Why are we doing this today? Just to finish the story I think I already said it. Episode 20. When I realized that the first episode I could put was on April 1st and I wanted it to be on Monday the first Monday turned out to be April 1st on top of the day of the lies I counted 20 episodes because I saw the statistics that it's enough to do 20 episodes to be in the top 5 podcasters in the world. I thought, what? Only 20? So it has to be 20, let's do it. And then I realized I counted the 20 Mondays and I realized the Monday number 20 falls on the day I turn 40. There's something here that I'm not realizing but I have to do. It had to be a moment when you came here and this conversation with you with Vanessa could only be like this and today. And this taught me that in 4 months, 4 and a half months it showed me that I can have an idea of where I'm going to have you but it's perfectly possible to get to a much more interesting place than I thought at the beginning. So I like to look ahead I have a series of things at the top of my unmeasured optimism. I imagine doing great events that can change the scenario of the industry in Portugal but regardless of that I constantly see myself being with people. Like I was talking to you yesterday about small events, every month every week with someone but every month doing some things and that's one of the things that made me close what you were saying and that's all there is to say that photography brings something but this brings something else and I need to be with people I need to talk intentionally with interesting people and that brought me what may not be more than what it is now but what it is now makes me happy. I didn't answer the question Do you want to ask him a question? Do you want to close it? I didn't have time I didn't catch that. Choose an easy one. If not, we'll have dinner. Exactly. I'm going to make dinner. Don't eat. Don't think too much. I'm going to ask a simple question I don't know if I'm going to end this in a very philosophical way but I'm going to do something simpler similar to yours but maybe a question I never asked you What did you think or how do you think or what is your vision of what ARC can be? What do you think this space and this platform can bring interesting for you and for everyone? I think we already talked about that. Yes, specifically in the future I'm not saying now I'm not saying these questions What do you think this platform can be interesting in your vision? I'm not going to say anything new because I think everyone has already understood where ARC can go I think ARC is that coffee where all the guys from weddings meet where you have good conversations it's a space I believe without judgment it's a space where we all try to take the market forward so I believe this coffee will grow it will gain new rooms in these rooms we already talked about that spaces focused on a certain theme that meet the needs of a certain group of people events on a larger scale but in the end I think ARC will always be the sharing among communities where it will fly it can fly very high but I think when we want to fly very high sometimes we run some risks and we can lose our essence I think my commitment is that ARC never loses its essence and I believe it will never lose because essence is everything and this essence is a little bit the generosity of sharing I believe that if this was always the premise of the generosity of sharing and when I say generosity I'm not talking about mentoring and sharing but when people genuinely talk to each other about their pain that was something we talked a lot we didn't share these pains we were alone going through some difficult moments and I believe that ARC is this coffee it will be a better coffee it will have a better service better chairs better sound but I believe it will be the coffee of reference but we have an art rock a coffee that we liked a lot when we were young we always went to the art rock a little bit like an art rock a coffee that can have an international scale and where people can exchange ideas because I believe what is missing in this world is exchange of ideas and in this area I think you are great I will finish with two things first I will thank you for everything and for nothing literally because even when we didn't see each other with the same eyes even when it was difficult you were there even if you didn't know how to help me you were there and I know you were so thank you because without you nothing makes sense you know that but without you nothing makes sense therapy thank you Renovation of votes we are celebrating our 10th anniversary Renovation of votes but thank you for everything for everything you are for me you are everything and thank you Vanessa nothing because this only makes sense with you I said this both in the individual episode with you and Ivo you were always there in those most delicate moments and your presence your help your example what you can do in Guimarães and if there is a lack in this moment if there is a moment if there is an enthusiasm in me in Elsa if there will be a better life for us and for our children in a year, two, three, five you were there because I was so close to stop photographing and you and Ivo marked this point thank you nothing I'm happy what are we doing? and now I leave I already told you this 30,000 times I had already told Vanessa many times that I wanted her to be my co-host but she now has the mania that only makes spectacular weddings and makes 500,000 weddings in the best places For me, you've seen how sad it is. Please! But... I think this is a... we have to do things. For me, it's all there. I just have to be free. Exactly. This doesn't make money, I can't pay... But I have like 10 free weeks. You get it right away. In July, this year was mine. I'm kidding, but seriously, I think we really have... I think this is also your beach. I don't joke when I talk about these episodes for example, in this show. You're perfect for this. And I think we really have to do this format. We have to do it more times because it makes sense. We're always opening up to each other. For me, it's all there. Thank you. You're welcome. I really liked your renewal. I wasn't planning it, I didn't imagine it would be like this. Have you stopped crying? No, I haven't. I can stop whenever I want. Stop it, for God's sake. Let me close it then. And with this, we finish. It was special for me. I hope it was for these two girls, but for me it was very special to have them here. It was a small example of what I would like for this to be in the future. But as we talked about in other episodes, logistics is difficult, but this was a small example of what I would like it to be. So, give us feedback. Tell me what you think. Congratulate Rui. When this is released, I'll be 40 years old. I won't see it, because I'm drunk. I have three kids, I don't have time to be drunk. But tell me what you think, because I like it and I need your help. I have a lot of ideas, but when you give feedback, it's great for me to know what you need. Congratulate them, give them suggestions, subscribe, click on the bell, like the video. Kisses, hugs to everyone and see you in the next episode.