O encontrar da Alma

episode: 25 title: "Ep. 25 - O encontrar da Alma, com Andreia Ferrás" pub_date: "Mon, 16 Sep 2024 05:00:00 +0000" original_language: english source_audio: "7d57fb62.mp3"

Hello, welcome. I'm Rui and this is the WACK Podcast. A little... Now, everyone is very welcome to the WACK Podcast. This was a little rough because we were here in the conversation and we decided to record. And, meanwhile, we didn't prepare enough, but it's all right. Welcome to WACK, once again. Today I have the enormous pleasure of having here with me Andrea Frasch, floral designer. Or can you still say florist? Or is it a bad thing? Tell me, is it cool or not? Look... Hello, first of all. While I open here, it's like this now, right? Exactly. Look, just like that, to start. I don't know, I don't know. I feel like there's a difference. There's a difference because... Florist is a little more associated with that older thing we have, that older image of those ladies, right? Yes. Who had their little shop, who did those things. And I feel like it's, in a way, very associated... That's it, it's that older vision. And, I don't know if it's wrong or not, I feel like it's also attributed more to an executor than to a creator. Okay, but then... Well, I understand what you're saying. Because, really, the scene of florist and floral design, to me, it's that thing that's cooler, right? Floral design is cooler. Because I feel that, but we feel this, we, as photographers, feel this in a slightly different way. Because it's not the word that changes, it's just the tone. Genre. Yes. Ah, she's a photographer. Or else, oh, I'm a photographer! You know? It changes a little bit... Yes. It changes a little bit the thing. That's it. I end up having a vision, perhaps... More... I don't know, more effective of the thing, because... I don't know if you know or not, but my training base is design. That is, I am an industrial designer. And therefore... Of product, yes. Yes. And therefore... Being a designer, for me, is... It's already part of it. So... Basically, I just changed the type of product a little bit. And therefore, I don't consider myself... I can't consider myself a florist. I consider myself a floral designer, because I'm already a basic design designer. And I don't... Me, to do whatever I want with flowers, I have to create something. That's it. This is just a half-question, which I hadn't planned or anything, but it's really something that sometimes... I think we're also in a phase, this applies to everything, in which, suddenly, a person seems to have to be careful with words, because people get offended by a series of things. I don't get... And I think it's a bit weird. I don't get... And I don't get and I don't get upset when people call me a florist. It's even quite common to say that and I don't get upset at all. But the other day, by chance, look, now I'm going to tell you this, it was someone who told me, and I thought it was a lot of fun, because it was with a company I was working with, and a lady came by and saw the arrangements I had made, I don't know, it was a decoration test. And the lady came by and said, Oh, how funny, the girl is a florist. And the other person said, Florist? That's the same thing they called a chef, a cook. And I thought, it's a lot of fun. That's it, it ends up... A chef ends up being a cook too, but I have a whole other baggage behind me, right? It's a little bit... Apart from the merit of all the people. It's a funny thing, because, in reality, the chef is a cook. Yes, he is. He cooks. But usually what happens, which is a very interesting thing, is that later, in the profession, or in the area, or in the restaurant where you are, when you become a chef, if the restaurant is big enough, you stop cooking because you need to be controlling who cooks. It's a little bit like that. Because that's it... So, you become the boss, you become the chef. You become the floral designer, but you keep making the flowers yourself. And it's a little bit like that, because it's like this, when I'm getting married, and this may sound a little weird now, but I make very few arrangements for my weddings. Yes? Very few. Unless I do the wedding alone, or with just one more person, depending on the size of the event. I'm talking about weddings, but it doesn't have to be. There's just one thing that I always do, which is the bouquets. I don't delegate that, at least in this phase, I don't delegate it to anyone else. But, sometimes there are weddings that I didn't do, I made the first arrangement, and I didn't do any more. I'm just managing a whole series of other things, and I don't even have time, sometimes, to make all the arrangements. So... But it makes sense. And maybe that's really the big distinction. Yes, there are some important ones, but I think maybe that's it. You did the design of what's going to happen in terms of flowers. Yes. The floral design. Yes. Then, maybe, who's... You can also do the florist's job, right? You can also be there making the flowers, or you can have other people who are just doing that, right? Yes, yes, yes. That's the case. I have my girls. Do you have boys? Do you have boys? Not by chance. Not by chance. Not by chance. But I would like to. But not by chance. So, it's my team... It's one of those things that's common, right? Yes. It's common, and I think it's a... That's it. It's normal. But I think more men are starting to show up, in the flowers. I think that's cool. And that's good. And that's good. But... So, that's it. It wasn't planned. It was something that happened. The people who work with me, in this case, it's my mother, that I taught her how to work. She wasn't from this area, and she showed interest, and I started, yes. And now she's a natural talent for this. And that's it. She's been working with me for many years, she had another project, and she has other creative projects, and she's always had a lot of... a lot of vision for the floral part, and we're friends, and so we started working together, and we never left each other, because we have a lot of empathy. She understands perfectly what I want, what I'm seeing, what I'm visualizing, and I think we complement each other very well. She's the calmness I need. Yes. Okay. This was a slightly unexpected introduction. Yes. Long. I noticed. But I wanted to ask you a previous question. Okay? I already realized you were a product designer. What brought you to flowers? Did you already have a passion? Or was it something completely by chance? Look, so... I've always been like this... creative, right? Since I was very little. There's a story my mother tells, very funny, that I had, I don't know, I don't know if I need to say it, but I was very little, I was 5, 6, 7 years old. And we spent time in Coimbra, at the time, in front of the college, and I told my mother, when I grow up, I'm coming here to study to be a florist. And this happened. It was, right? At the time I said this, and I think when I was little, I often said I wanted to be a florist, I wanted to work with flowers. I grew up in the countryside, with my grandmother, so I had this contact with nature, with picking fruits, all those things. And so I was always very attached to that side. But then life happened, right? I started studying, and I took arts in high school, so I've always been a little bit around. And at the time we had to decide a training, a higher course, I confess it was a time that I was a little lost, because there was nothing like that, that I felt, this is for me. And I think at the time I chose product design, because I felt it was the creative area, perhaps more broad, for something that I could one day come to do. And it was in that sense, I took the course, I never felt that it was exactly what I wanted to do, because, because, well, product design is very much linked to the industrial part, and to the business part, and I never identified much with the corporate side. And it was at the time, that is, I left college in 2008, which was that incredible year of crisis, right? And I took many years until I was able to find a job, that job, right? Of the new, in the case of the new sets, in the case of the place where I was, it was a very large schedule, but until then I did a lot of things, I had huge creative projects, I knew that, that is, I knew I wanted to do something of my own, I had projects for the creation of vines for mantras, I had, I made my own clothes, all self-taught, like that, I had a very cool project, and which, by the way, was that project that made me, at the time, get a place in the company where I later went to work, I had a project of ties, hand-made, for me, like that, and I still had it for a while, I still had it, only that now, at the time, that never went forward, and now I understand why, I was very immature, I didn't have, I had no notion of business, it's not that I have a lot, no, I have more, but, but at the time, that ended up, well, they are more hand-made works, more creative, and at the time, I ended up letting it fall a little, also because, there was this need to have a job to also be able to have a salary, that thing of, stability, that is necessary, and then I ended up being able to work in that company for a few years, and it was, I think I really needed to be working in a corporate environment to know, I already knew, but I was sure that that wasn't for me, it wasn't, and then, it was at the time that I was asked to get married, however, and this world of weddings, as such, I don't know, it seems, I can't explain, what was the click, what came to my mind, this is what I want to do, I know I was still working in that company, and I was researching art formations, what was there? There was nothing special, I ended up taking one, I knew it wasn't anything like me, it's a formation from here, from the area of Porto, which is very focused on street florists, but I thought, okay, but I'm going to take the base, and then, with the base, I do what I want to do. So, at the time I did this training, it was still mid-year, on weekends, while I was working, and when I finished the training, I said, okay, I'm going to say goodbye. Just like that? I'm going to say goodbye, because, because, this is what I want to do, and I said goodbye, a few months before my wedding, a little crazy, a little crazy, I said goodbye months before my wedding, and I started working on this, little by little, little by little, little by little. But you said you already knew, you said you knew it wasn't what you wanted to do, but you already knew what you wanted to do, or was it in a perspective of, I know what I don't want, and eventually, what I want will appear. I think it was more like that, yes. That is, I knew that it wasn't, well, going back a little bit to the florists, isn't it? The aesthetics of the florists, I'm going to call them street florists, store florists, it wasn't my aesthetics, it wasn't with that kind of image that I identified with. And I knew I wanted to do something different. What I wanted to do at the time, it's not what I do now. It's been 7, 8 years, I don't know, around that, and a lot has changed. At the time, what was in fashion was the field, that thing more... Also, and I think I was a little bit out there at the time, that is, I tried to give a language that was more mine, but it was a lot out there. Although I never, I have a... I'm going to miss the word, but I run away a little bit from the trends. I have a little bit of that thing of if everyone is doing this, I can even take something from there, but I'm going to try to go around. That shows. Really? Relax, we're here a little bit, but it shows. Ok, ok. Good to know. Because I have this, but... What people understand is always different. We are always very close. We are very close to each other. Yes. And it's very difficult for you to realize if you really fell out of it. What do you realize in relation to yourself? What is the perception that you cause? And sometimes it's a surprise, be it positive or negative, but many times it's a surprise. Yes, yes. It's true, it's true. Meanwhile, did you find that... your self? Did you find it? Look, I feel I'm closer to women. We are always changing. And so, I'm not the same person I was two or three or four years ago. I go to my job from two or three or four years ago and I don't identify with what I am now. So... So, let's go there, yes. That's what I am. What I am now, or rather, what my job is now, is what I am. But I am too. I'm always changing and I think that's also reflected in my job. But I feel that... And I don't know if I'm going to talk about this or not, but in the last two years, a year and a half plus this, I had a very big change in aesthetics, in the way I see what I do, in focusing more on my vision and not looking so much around. Okay, so let me interrupt you there and skip a bit. Go ahead, go ahead. Because I really have this almost obvious question for what you are saying and the question I wrote says so. When I investigate your portfolio, I feel a transition between a person who does beautiful work to an artist who brings soul to every bouquet of flowers. Do you feel the same? Oh, how beautiful! No, but I really felt that. It wasn't just because it was beautiful, I felt that even from the photos you share, your portfolio, your Instagram, your online presence, you clearly notice this. Even because many times I feel something interesting. I imagine it's on purpose, that you play a little bit with the contrast of aesthetics, that is, you have a beautiful arrangement, which is easily understood as beautiful, and then you take a type of photos like him, which is a more raw aesthetic. That is, you make a very interesting mixture there, almost like a dark side and a light side, a slightly contrasting thing, which I found extremely interesting. That's why it seemed to me, or I felt, that you were bringing a soul, more than just a beautiful arrangement. Do you feel the same? Look, I don't know. I'm kind of... Look, I don't think they've ever described my work this way. I think I myself hadn't realized it that way, that it was this... It's when you realize that it's authentic and genuine. It's when you have a hard time realizing that the person outside really realized exactly what you were doing. Or did you really have that perception when maybe it was just natural to you? Maybe it wasn't so... Yes! It was more organic, but then you think, oh, really. Yes, no. And now you made me think, because, in fact, I think, well, going back to this, and going back to the question of what my work shows, my work shows what I really am. In other words, I have... I'm very perfectionist, but, on the other hand, I like to embrace the perfect. So, if there's a flower that's not great, or that's already halfway through, I'll probably pick it up and try to do something with it. So, it's what it is, isn't it? Flowers have a very short quality period, and I like to see that beauty on the side that, from there, is the ugly side. So, it's well applied to the human being. Yes. Yes. But, look, that's really it. That's really it. And I don't know, I think I have... Now I'm thinking, I think I have some descriptions, some... Maybe in some posts, something... I don't know if it's on my site, I don't remember. In which I talk about that, about... picking up the ugly side and making it beautiful. Because... Because that's life. Because life isn't always beautiful and wonderful. Or simply accepting it, isn't it? And accepting it. We all have an ugly side. That's it. That's it. That's it. And that's why I also like to play a little bit with that shadow thing, and I don't know what. Yes, because... So, I developed, in this last year and whatever, a kind of... a little taste for photography. Don't beat me, Rui, but... I know I'm very strange, I'm, like, very basic, but... I think no one... There's no one who can do it. But when I want to move on, there's that same thing I'm feeling about something I did. Especially when I'm in my studio working, and I like to play a little bit with flowers and things, and test things. I think no one, better than me, can photograph that with the vision I want to give to that element. Even though sometimes I spend hours on that, and no photography is in condition, and I spend a lot of time sometimes. But... I don't know. Look, I already got lost, but where was I going? But... But yes, it's very funny that you have that perception of things, because, in fact, I think I embraced that other side of me less... perfect. Less perfect. Less perfect. Yes. And maybe that's reflected... Because in the first episode, with Sofia, one of the things that was most interesting in that... episode in the conversation with her, was the point in which she says she is not a professional. Yes, I thought she would be. But, in fact, I think what I was thinking here is, is it that the fact that when you work with things that you know have that short validity period, when you know that a fruit or a flower, anything that comes from nature, is intrinsically perfect because it was supposed to be like that, but it's not always going to be pretty and perfect, with everything the same as we would like, as if it were designed. Do you think that the fact that you work with things that are intrinsically perfect, but to our imperfect eye, forces you not to be a professional? Because you know you can't count on perfection. Without a doubt, without a doubt. I mean, I've been a lot more... I mean, I'm basically a perfectionist person. I like to do everything with the greatest detail possible and not fail at anything. There's a little cushion here, that's what happens. But, at the same time, in my work, I feel like I'm a kind of deconstructed perfectionist. I mean, I'm not so bothered anymore if a flower is a little more shabby because it got three hours of sun with 35 degrees. It's life. The flower won't stand it. Not even us. How much more the poor flower, right? And so, I think that's it. I think the fact of working with elements so delicate and so susceptible to external conditions, the heat, the wind, the cold, the rain, it doesn't matter. The weather, sometimes too, right? Gave me that other side of... Okay, this is nature. I work with completely natural elements. I have no control. There are things I can't control. Let's say that in weddings, the only thing we don't control is... Meteorology. Yes. I sometimes don't control it very well. Of course, we have the techniques, and we have the ways, and we have the time to put things together, and ways to store them. There's a series of technical issues that I could be listing here. And within what I can, obviously, I always have extra flowers. For obvious situations. But even so, I mean, it already happened to me to do a wedding in the Dory, where it was 42 degrees, and the flowers were up to the last one, in a very cool cellar. And at the moment, it was already like 6 or 7 in the afternoon, when we put the arrangements on the table, in five minutes, the flowers were like this. Dry, completely dry. And there was nothing we could do to control it. It was beautiful anyway. But if they touched us, they were crunchy. That wasn't something... Visually, you couldn't tell. But I knew. I knew they weren't in great condition. No one noticed. I mean, when I say they were crunchy, it was more the greens. The flowers themselves weren't crunchy. But... But this to say that, in fact, there are things we don't control, and I'm kind of learning to accept that. It's a bit difficult, but I'm learning to accept that. Yes. You're talking about it, and my philosophical side is here, because the way you talked about the question of we can't even stand the flowers, you think, you cut the roots, and put them in the sun and in the rain. It's true. It's the same thing. You cut the roots and throw them somewhere, that's going to be difficult, right? It's true. Poor flowers. But I really like that perspective of what you said about the professional in deconstruction. Because it's really what you have to be. Because when you get stuck in a profession, things don't start, right? They don't do it. And if you're stuck in that... There's a phrase I really like that says you can't optimize what doesn't exist. That's why. You have to start, you have to do it, and then it goes. It's true. You get better. So, speaking of that, what inspires you? And how does your creative side work? That is, you came from a world where you created the tools, you learned the techniques, but maybe you still hadn't found exactly what you wanted to do. And I assume that right now you're... Right now it's you taking into account your current self. Yes. What inspires you today? And within what inspires you, how do you create something with that inspiration? Look, I'd love to have a beautiful answer to give you, but I don't have one. I don't have one. I don't have... I don't know, I don't have that thing to inspire myself, I'm going for a walk, I don't know. No. It's kind of automatic, you know? Sometimes I'm just, like, making a budget, and I remember something, and I'm like, ah, this is it. Or in any conversation with someone, or... I don't know. Of course, there's always that side of... Sometimes when I watch a movie, I get inspired by a certain image, by a certain... Or sometimes it's enough... I think they're triggers. I think it's more like that. They're triggers. It's enough... I don't know, look. A very simple example. I'm in a conversation with a couple... First conversation. And they say something completely random. They say a word, and I start to read, like, to exchange things. Sometimes they're like, hey, she doesn't shut up. And I start... And if we did this, and we go, I don't know what, and... I start to imagine things right away. And it's kind of... natural. I can't tell you where it comes from. Of course it comes, most likely, from my experiences, from what I do, right? I think it's essential to have a life beyond this. I don't... I miss flowers. So when a wedding is over, I can't be... I say, take everything from me. I don't want anything. And people say, oh, ma'am, it was flowers, you can do something else. I don't want it. Take this all from me. I don't want it. I'm tired of seeing flowers. Take everything. Take everything. But... This could mean that we need to have a life beyond this. I'm not... I'm not a person... Or rather, it's not that I'm not addicted to my job. I love what I do. I don't see myself doing anything else. And I miss it when I'm not doing it. But I also don't want to be doing it all the time. I need to stop. That was also one of the changes that happened to me, also, two or three years ago, was to realize exactly that, that... And maybe my creative side came from above. It's not that it wasn't there, but... Maybe it was a bit closed off. Maybe not. I'm sure it was. It was a phase in which I realized, ok, I'm... I never wanted to do... As I said initially, I never identified with the corporate side. I don't want to do this a job where I'm counting weddings. I'm counting... Of course it's inevitable. We always end up realizing how many we have to do annually. And we can't count in the sense of... Ok, this one is done. Go on. Next. What's next? How many flowers do I have? What do I have? It's not this. It's not this. I know that... At the business level, this is a business. This is... I live from this. It's my job. I live from this. But, not being me, a very ambitious person, I like to say that I'm an ambitious creative person. I like to say this a lot. I have... I have a creative ambition. What motivates me in my job is this. Of course everything else motivates me too, right? And it was already mentioned here in previous episodes that if we're not financially comfortable to be creative, we're not going to be. We're going to be very stuck to what is possible to do. But... And we need that... that fire. We need... We're going to be... Life is how it is, right? And we need money to have that fire to also be creative. Right? I'm not going to be a hypocrite. We have this taboo and we're afraid of putting things as simple as they are. You work, you like what you do, but you have to make money. Because if you don't make money, you're going to be forced to do what you don't like and you're going to be in a terrible cycle. I'm going to have to do something else. And I'm going to have to... I'm going to have to stop doing this. I... I don't know what I was saying before. Before this. I'm losing myself. I don't know. It's great. This is great. Even because you're jumping to another point that I really wanted to talk to you about. Which is... It's clear that you're that creative person and that you have that soul in the images in the images you make and in the work you do. And I was really going to ask you how do you deal with the business part of this? How do you... On the one hand, how do you deal with it now? And I even wanted to be more specific about how you organize everything well. But I'm also curious to know how was your transition from someone who jumped completely crazy to something... to a new area, to a new sector that works differently, that makes money differently, and now, proportionally, we make a lot of money. But in very few moments. So, it's strange for us to manage the money. Because maybe between May and September we made a lot of money. But we went through October, November, December, January, February and March without making almost any or little money. So, how did you jump from a stable, quiet thing that gave you a normal salary to something that maybe gave you a lot of money but you have to manage for a whole year. How was this? Besides working on your own, right? Yes, yes. Just for myself, right? This is very nice. Oh, I'm going to leave the work of the new A7s that are many hours and now I work many more. But that's it. I don't know if you've seen a meme. There's a Steve Colbert meme where he laughs a lot where he appears on top saying when he said he was going to stop working on his own that he wanted to work on his own so he wouldn't have to work on the new A5s. And the meme appears laughing like crazy. Yes, that's exactly it. That's exactly it. Of course we have many advantages because we can manage our schedule but then sometimes, right? One, two, three in the morning and there we were working because in the afternoon we went to do something else. But, look. I'm a very organized person. I can't work in chaos. By the way, that's a very funny thing because I think there's this perception that creatives are very... messy and things and papers and I don't know. I can't. Well, today they're not in my studio but in my studio the keyboard and mouse are aligned. They're like that. Right? If I have to make a bouquet in my studio and there are buckets of flowers scattered I can't do it. I have to go for a walk, breathe, go back, put things together to be able to concentrate. So, this organization also helped me on this other side which is the financial side, right? In this case, that is... I have... I'm very... And I owe it to my parents because they were always very financially organized and very focused and I feel that I have that from them too. And it also brought it by the fact of having worked in a company. So, I knew I had to organize myself not month by month but year by year. That is, I don't do calculations and now being here quite clear of the way I organize my financial issue. I don't calculate... I earned X this month and this is what I have for this month. No, what I calculate is annually. So, I get to the end of a year and I see taking out all expenses, social security, VAT, everything. I take everything out. Ok, this was what I earned this year and I take that money and I divide it monthly for a salary. And so, I basically, from year to year I always have a guaranteed salary. If next year this goes very badly and I don't earn anything I have a year of margin to decide if I will continue or not. And at least a year... So, you really put that money aside. Yes. You put aside a year of your salary. Yes, yes. And every year, I suppose every month there is a transfer of my salary to my daily account. Daily? Yes, yes, yes. So, I am telling you this because I don't have... I mean, I am an individual businessman and so, it also allows me to do this. I know that... Not being a company, I know that things are done in a different way. I, as an individual businessman, I can manage this way. And so, I have to have this organization. I still don't know how much I will earn for the year. My salary. I will talk to my boss, see what I can do. This is an extraordinary game and I think it's great because, naturally, when you have a company things are different, the way of thinking is different but it's not extraordinarily different from what you are suggesting. Of course, technically you can and can't do it the same way but it's a much easier leap if, at the beginning, and for those who are listening... I think the majority of the guys who work in weddings are N's, individual businessmen. Yes, yes, yes, it's true. The majority is like this but the majority, I think, of those I know, is very freestyle. The money comes in, it's all there and then... And this is terrible because there are months when you think you are bigger and then, in the other months, you go through some difficulty or maybe you have a difficulty in two or three months and you don't know how things are. And this suggestion you are making is really extraordinary because when, if, more than when, things get bigger and you see that maybe it makes sense to have a company or because you are going to hire people or because you have grown up and it makes sense, the transition becomes much easier. You don't have to say... Because going from N to company and, mainly, you go from N and you are still unemployed in the first two or three years or as long as it takes to a company, you forget. They are worlds, they are different dimensions and that's why I think your way of organizing is perfect. In addition to having that one-year salary, which is a wonderful thing. That's it! In other words, basically, what I'm making this year were my earnings from last year. It's my salary from this year taking into account the previous year. Therefore, I'm still working for my next year's salary. It's a little bit like that. But that's it. It was the transition. For me, it works. This was also discussed, obviously, here at home. Because I work... I'm married to a person who works in a company. Cris is also a designer, a product designer. But she works in a corporate company, she gets a monthly salary and so on. So, we managed to organize in our lives. This was the way we found that made the most sense to be a couple that has a monthly salary and to organize ourselves. Yes, yes. But was the transition difficult? From working on your own to taking care of yourself? The emotional part too, of getting used to being in one way and moving on to another. How was that transition? Look, it was a while ago. I didn't feel that. Maybe because I was also in a phase of my life in which a lot was happening, namely my marriage, at the time. And I didn't feel... I think it was a very natural thing. I didn't feel that... Of course, there's always the financial part, initially, of trying to understand, right? But I think I'm still trying to understand everything I do in my life. I'm still making decisions. Even yesterday, I was thinking about things that may change next year. This is our life. This is our life. Our life is always about adapting. Adapting to the conditions. And I think, also, for the path we want to go, I have a lot of things that I still want to change. Even more now, because I feel that now I'm more aligned with what I want to do. And I already have ideas of things that I'm going to change, that maybe you won't notice much in the image I show, but internally, in my way of working and managing my business, one of the things I want, and I know it's kind of a general goal, but one of the things I want, and I'm going to do for the year, is to reduce the number of dates. Reduce the number of dates I'm going to set, but that leads to a whole other level of decisions, especially financial and everything else, that... that has to be thought about and taken care of. Reducing the number of dates is not a common thing, it's not a common goal. It's in our little bubble. I know. Because most of it... I know. Most of it is always... And I think it's a shame, because I think we're all behind, or during... Everyone is at a certain point, and then maybe you start to realize that the idea may be the opposite, but when I see examples from a conference some time ago, there was a guy, I don't remember how old he was, but he said that when he was 38 or 39, he had a heart attack. Well, I think... Maybe this should be more than an alert... It should be an alert not only for him, it should be for everyone around. But this issue of weddings, I think that... Not only in weddings, but it's part of what we know, but let's not get carried away too much, and sometimes it seems that only when things are very close to going wrong, that we need to do something. It's true. This idea of doing less is not common, I think it should be more common. Yes. Because there it is, you have to do something else. We often talk about increasing prices for everyone, to take the market and all that, but when you do a lot of work, you don't need to increase prices. If you do less, because of your quality of life, you will be forced to increase. And at the same time, not only would we all have to... We would have more work to do. from the perspective that the market would be more spread we would all be forced to earn more, to charge more and I think we would all be more relaxed. I agree, I agree. But do you already feel that load, that work or is it simply, simply as you say, or is it more a perspective of knowing that you do less you will be able to have more creative time and you will have that even greater dedication to what you like to do. Look, it's a mix of several things. So, I can go back, I can go back again two years ago, more or less. Two, two and a half years ago which was also at that time that I had ... So, two years ago, all of us we had a brutal wedding load in 2022, right? Because we came from the pandemic, from Covid, 2020, postponements, everything was almost concentrated there in the year 2022 so it was crazy. That's it, for me it was more 22. The 21 was still like that, for me it was more 22. And it was that year that I realized, and now doing another type of sharing, it was that year that I realized that it was not right. It was until the end of 2021, maybe early 2022 was when I realized that it was not right and that things had to change. And then maybe this whole change of mine, right? In which, in fact, I no longer recognized myself, nor myself, nor my work. Because, I say this, my work is me, but I am not my work. And at the time I felt that I was not well and I looked for help, it was already talked about here in the question of therapy, etc. And I looked for help and in fact I was not well at all. I was really depressed, I was anxious, I was already having a burnout, I did not have a burnout, but I was already ... That is, if I had not been looking for help at that moment, it was what was going to happen. And that was a big bummer for me. Of course, this was at the end, if I'm not mistaken, of 2021 and I still had a completely crazy year 2022 ahead. Fortunately, I did that, that is, I managed to have that perception before the beginning of 2022 and I started my therapy and ... I started therapy, I started all that recovery process, whatever that is, before the beginning of the year 2022. And fortunately, I managed to have a time without ... I focused on that and managed to get through the time of 2022. Although it was probably the time I got married the most, that is, yes, I say time, but it is the year that I got married the most that year, but I managed, at the cost of some pounds that I lost and of very little time, but I managed to make the time impeccably. Anyway, at that time of therapy, it was still at the beginning of 2022, I realized, ok, I'm going to do it this year, because in fact everything is hired, the clients are here, it is necessary to do it, I will do it in the best possible way, in an exemplary way and I did it, but I knew that at the end of 2022 things had to change and that's where I changed. I made all this change with a lot of fear, because I knew that I had completely changed my image and my way of working and being in the market and whether I would be very well accepted or not. And I took that risk, being honestly faithful to myself and knowing, ok, this is the best for me, it is the best for my job and it is the best for my clients and for my family and for my friends. And so, what happened was a much calmer year in 2023, which I already knew it would be, because it was, basically, the year of transition and, therefore, I think it was the year that I got to know myself again. I feel like I started from the beginning, I feel like I came back 6 or 7 years ago and I started again on the first day. Honestly, that's how I feel, or that's how I felt and I still feel a little like that. I feel like I started from the beginning and I needed it and I also changed the name of my project to my own name. I was going to ask you if it had happened at that time. It was, it was, it was. I changed, that is, I did all, I spent the winter of 2023, no, from 2022 to 2023, completely reformulating the image of my project and making a complete change. Let me ask you this question. And was it because you let yourself feel that life was more of a sea of roses that you left the name Lavião Rosas? That name no longer made sense to me. It didn't make sense to me, it didn't identify me. When I created the name, at the time, it made a lot of sense to me. It was, as I told you, I launched my project at the time, at the time I was getting married and the song Lavião Rosas had a very important presence at our wedding. And hence, at the time, the name, not letting itself have that importance on the day of our wedding, in my project and in what I wanted to do, it didn't make sense to me for some time. And I was already, I think I was creating a wrong image of what I was doing. I don't know if... It wasn't me anymore, that wasn't me anymore. I felt, when doing this study, because for me, let me also make this parenthesis, which is a very curious thing. When we made the first cocktails and flowers at Sofia, I asked Sofia, she was the first one I got there, and I asked Sofia, who is Kia? She said, well, Andréa, Andréa Ferraz. Do you want to meet me? I said, no, I don't know you. And then, because I didn't know you by name, but we had, in 2001, you got married to Marta and João, here in Ribeirão, if I'm not mistaken. Cool, cool. 21, 22, 22. 21, it was in Madeira. That is, I knew perfectly well who Lavião Rosas was. You knew. We had already been together. Yes. And it confused me, like, but, what do you mean, I don't know you? At that time, I felt like I was in a bubble, that I suddenly, I mean, I didn't know anyone, like, suddenly, I didn't know anyone, what's going on here? Everything changed, everything went away, they saw us, and what's going on? Yes. And now, it's funny to realize that some people felt that at that stage, naturally, right? Because we all know something, somehow. But I find it very curious, in your case, that not only did that change exist, but seeing your Instagram, you realize that change. And I tell you, one thing I said to you, that's how I felt the way I asked you the question. Because what I saw before was beautiful work, and suddenly, you see soul. They continue to be beautiful, but you bring more than anything. And maybe you left perfection aside, and you brought a reality of soul, for you to do, and for your own images to share. I thought that was extraordinary. Yes. That is, it was a very big change in your life, in your emotional part at that time. It was. And, of course, I don't want to... I'm not very... I'm a very practical person. I don't have a lot of patience for very romantic things, and I don't know... Maybe I'm wrong. No, I'm kidding. I'm very emotional. A lot. I cry a lot. I got emotional here, Rui. Just to tell you. Exactly. When you made that description of my work, I was here, like, shaking. But I am. It's true. I'm a Maria Magdalena. I'm always crying. But... I mean, what can I say? I'm very emotional. I don't have the patience to... romanticize things that aren't... real. I mean... Oh, well. I... It's like this. When I don't have anything real to say on Instagram, I prefer to be silent. I mean... It would be much better if everyone did that. I know I'm not the best person on social media. I work a lot on that. It's not something innate in me. When I want to share what I think, it's huge. It's a whole process. I would like to be much more practical on that. I'm not. Why? I confess that sometimes I'm afraid of being misinterpreted. Because I'm a bit of a pervert. I really like irony. I'm always playing dumb. That's why I was full of myself when you invited me to this. And sometimes... Even in my stories, I'm afraid of being misinterpreted. Why? I don't have much patience for things like... Oh, the most beautiful flower in the world. Oh, I don't even... Man! That's it. I love it. And when I say that I really wanted to talk about that flower, I'm very happy. And that this flower is really amazing. It really is. Believe me. Because... I don't... I think maybe that's it. I mean... Maybe you also realize that... When things are not so cool and not beautiful, I share the same. Maybe I should share more. Because I don't have much patience for... Man, I'm going to be very honest. I have pages of people that I like. But I don't have much patience for... Good morning, joy! This event was super spectacular. And then we know it wasn't. Which is normal. No! The events... There are events that actually go really well. And that are like... Super calm from start to finish. There are others that don't. And it's normal. Fortunately, I've been lucky. Or it's also the way I manage my things. My montages have gone really well. When I say montages, I mean on my wedding day. Things have gone really well this year. Except for one or another situation. A little bit more boring and uncomfortable. Which is normal. Like the wind. I'm crazy about the wind. This year. Which takes everything. With parts of the street. This year I've had I don't know how many matches. I'm very upset with the wind. Yes. And... Yes. For example, not long ago... I don't want to say more, Neira. But I think it was Gustavo and Tiago from Bosque. They made a match. And I thought it was wonderful. They made a match of the tables. All beautiful and perfect. And then they made another match of the same tables. Without any arrangement. Without any candle. Saying... Guys, let's go. Let's go out with the wind. I mean, there was so much wind. They had to take everything. These are things that happen. It's normal. If the wedding was spectacular. I'm sure it was the same. But it's unexpected that it happens. What does this mean? I don't have much patience to... To force things that are not true. Now that you talk on social media. Do you feel... Do you feel that you suffer with... With comparisons? Or with what's going on? Do you feel that you're bothered by some of the artificialities you see? Or simply the feeling of obligation to share things even when you don't feel like it? Is it a fight you have? Have you ever made peace in any way? I don't feel that I've made peace. I don't feel that. I feel that... I mean, I know that... And I also owe... All this... All this evolution of mine. Going back... I don't want to talk about the same thing all the time. But in the last two years... Since I made this change. I feel that... I mean, I know that I also owe that to social media. Because I've worked in that sense. Because I've shown another way of being. I think I have. I hope I have. Some things. And I feel that I've shown that side of me through social media. But I don't understand anything about social media. I'm a nerd. I... I do the things that... Or I share the things that I share because... I don't know. From this side of me, seeing things... I don't want to be this person, but maybe it's different. And that's it. And this is recognized. And I'm glad that it is. But... But I suffer a lot because of the question of comparison. And sometimes I feel that I have to move away from that. And I've worked on that too. But that has to do with confidence. Above all. A year ago, I was worse than I am now. And I hope that in a year I'll be even better. Or in a few months. And it has to do with validation. We've talked about this in a very short conversation we had. I feel that this year is giving me a validation that I was actually needing. Because of my change. I needed to feel that I was on the right path. Now I feel that I'm actually on the right path. Because people give me that validation. And I know that this is all very beautiful. And this thing of... Oh, but we have to trust ourselves. And we have to believe. I believe. But if you don't have other people believing in you too and validating you for that. Right? I mean, we're not going anywhere. We're not going anywhere. I can believe... We're not going anywhere. Exactly. I can believe a lot in what I'm doing. And if no one else likes it and if no one else wants to look at it and see it. I'm not going anywhere. So, having that external validation. Without a doubt. That is giving me a lot more confidence. And more and more. And I feel that this year... This is happening in a more beautiful way. More truthful too. Let me ask a question about that. All this process you're talking about. I think in one way or another. The last... From 20 to 22, 23. All of us. In one way or another. Personal or professional. We all had that transition. Because, really, COVID and the pandemic brought a lot of things. That I think a good part of people maybe felt it soon. And others, as is my case. And maybe it's yours too. That were delayed. And we only felt it two or three years later. Yes. And my question is. Now that we're all out of the bubble. And that even before there was... The podcast is cool. But it's still a virtual scene. Where it's just the two of us. It's not something that... We don't have the community together. But before that. Or some at the same time. We started to do some small meetings. We started to gather 10, 12, 13, 15 people. With a much cooler reality. It's not ideal yet. But it was much cooler. And my question is. What do you think these small meetings. These small face-to-face meetings. Small groups. Helped you in that validation? What is it that these meetings. And this small community gathering. Still brought you? It helped a lot. It helped a lot. Not even for the simple fact. Suddenly I'm in my bubble. Finding myself in this little thing. And suddenly Sofia tells me. Come here. Let's make a scene here. I want you to come. And I'm like. Sofia is inviting me. To go. To her house. To be with people. Wow. I really have to go. So. Right there. First point. To have these people. That you admire. Yes. That I admire. It's true. I don't really like. To have this admiration thing. Because we are all people. And humans. We all fail. And when we have a person. Too tall. I don't really like this. But I really like Sofia. I really like André. And they invite me. To their house. And they already know. That I only drink Coca-Cola. Being a regular customer. There. In space. It's amazing. And. Man. And. And this thing of meeting people. Because. We are behind a screen. We are very closed in our bubble. I talk to many people. Of course. But it's different. Being with people. Living with them. Knowing another side. The playful side. The emotional side. It's a different thing. And. I think. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's and the kiss. And it's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. Coming back to Gustavo and Tiago, I really like Gustavo and Tiago, I don't know if you can understand and I was invited by them to go to a workshop they did in Lisbon, it was unbelievable And them to have invited me to go, for me was such an amazing thing, one day i was working there in that workshop, it was wonderful and to have that opportunity and feel like today I saw something from someone that said I don't know what, like we are what we give something like that, maybe it's something like that I don't know, maybe I'm receiving a little bit more as well It's true But you know, I'm talking to you, you're sharing with me what was your end of 2021 and beginning of 2022 Yes And yesterday I recorded with Rui Vaz Franco I think the episode will come out immediately before yours And he also shared with me that during that period I don't know exactly in which year, but during the pandemic period, 2020-2023 that he and Cristiana also went through terrible periods Me and us here at home, we went through very difficult moments And I was sharing with me, and you were sharing with me as well and I thought, why don't we stay closer I was telling you this, for those who have listened, it will be a bit boring but the question is a bit simple The fact that we have our friends having friends that are part of our profession, in our area helps, because the problem can be the same A depression, anxiety, it can be the same thing but either because you work on your own versus working for the other or because you work in this area that has its peculiarities it has a lot of good things, but it also has some difficult things Why aren't we closer enough to share? And it's something that makes me sad I hope things start to change a bit, but it makes me sad Why are we all suffering alone? Why are we all suffering alone? Maybe if we had some professionals here anonymous marriages or something like that and we continue and I think that we're not going to solve anything but we can help and I'm sorry you understand that I went through some things too, Elsa too and to see that a lot of people from our group, closer or farther go through it too and you say how come I didn't know? I know why I didn't know it was in my head, we were all trying to survive we were all it's sad, and then we found by the way, I met with you, I think we didn't have time to talk in that marriage I remember being with Elsa very fast that was also a lot to happen but you were in the middle of that terrible air and you say, why a person it's not the place it's not in the middle of a party that a person is going to talk but why we don't share anymore and I'm sorry I hope things start to change because I'm sorry it can't be like that, it can be easier no, no and you were saying something and I think that in fact it's important because even though we work in marriage, we have different areas when you go to work I'm already leaving, then I come back and work but we're not there our work on the wedding day are different things however, no one else that is, people who do not work in the area of weddings, will not understand us in the same way that we understand each other I say this because none of my friends work in this area there are different areas many different things and sometimes even though I talk to them I say friends, even family relatives, etc. people who don't work in this area they don't understand no matter how much we try to explain and no matter how empathetic they are they can't understand and I understand but I realize that they don't understand and that's why I think it's important within the area of people, of wedding professionals to talk more about some subjects because only we will understand we will understand what people are going through what we are going through which is often very silent it's very ours yes my brother said something it's a joke I know it's a joke but it's a little bit what people think your job is to do what people do on vacation like taking pictures I'm going to take pictures that's what people do on vacation in part a good percentage is a joke but naturally you sometimes are forced to explain that the work was only on Saturday it was spectacular but also I don't even want to complain about a job that I love that has wonderful characteristics but the truth is that football players have become 4 years ago it was talked a lot about Simone Biles saying I don't go to the Olympics you are talking about a girl that now in these Olympic Games became the most medalized gymnast in history and one of the most medalized athletes and ok I mean, she is an athlete her job is to do pirouettes she can also simplify things she can simplify everything it doesn't mean that there is no pressure no stress, no anxiety, no insecurity regardless of the job it's not just a person that works in a bank it's not just a person that works in a restaurant that has problems, all of us have you have musicians by the way, the amount of musicians that commit suicide 20 years ago all of us have problems and I think the great importance is that they are different in general, in the end, they are the same insecurities, the feeling that it's not enough those intrinsic things that are ours, but then they manifest in a different way, and you have to take care of it and I think that this issue of we live in a similar area helps us because then you will realize if you have a problem dealing with a certain couple we don't always have the same couples even when they are the same true a fiancée may not be for you what it is for me and sometimes, just the fact of talking to each other can help to understand why a fiancée is being more difficult with you, a fiancée is being more annoying with me sometimes this conversation helps us to understand things a little more and it can either help you solve a problem or make you more empathetic in certain situations it all comes down to this, to talk to share information yes to finish, this conversation has been wonderful but to finish, I wanted to ask you that more or less common question actually, two questions I'm going to do one that I like a lot which is, what is your definition of success? how do you evaluate your success? this is my version of what your eyes say what your eyes say, yes I knew something like that was coming and I started thinking and I don't know what to say look I honestly don't know well, I think I think it all comes down to as I said I'm not super ambitious I don't want to have a company I want to strike that cliché I want balance I want to focus a lot on the creative part that allows me to reach the clients that I want that I identify with more because it's normal that you don't identify with all the clients when I say I identify, it's not with the people attention, it's with the type of work etc but, I mean I want my image when I say my image, I'm talking about my project it's me transmits more of what I am and at the same time this all seems very idyllic but at the same time I want to have more time to live this life to be with my son to all of a sudden he grew up and stopped being a baby he's already a boy and I didn't even see it but all of a sudden I look at him and I'm like he's already like this and he already has arguments and he already says very important things and what is this? what happened to my baby? and so that's one of my goals is to have more quality time in the family and on a personal level and to be able to reconcile that with what I really like to do, which is my job I think there's a lot of this thing of saying that it's a proverb that I don't agree with there's a phrase that says a lot if you do what you like you won't work one day in your life no, no, I work a lot and I do what I like it's work if I didn't need it, I wouldn't do it I would play with the flowers at home and everything would be fine it's work and that's why I want to reconcile my work with my personal life and I don't want to do millions of this I don't want to do the biggest events I don't want to do more events that's not my ambition my ambition and I think my definition of success is to be calm with what I'm doing to feel confident to feel that I'm doing well that the people who work with me are doing well, that's very important to me a lot and to feel calm both in my work and in my personal life I don't need big houses and big cars and big studios and I don't know what no, a balance and meanwhile you already answered both I'll let you speak one kiss see? the best podcast guest you've ever had answering like this one question and answering two Andrea, it was such a pleasure I know I say this a lot but meanwhile I'll say it it's a huge pleasure to have this opportunity to be more than 10, more than 15 to talk to you and to have the opportunity to meet you because it has happened to me constantly to be talking to people that I know either virtually or very sporadically, very superficially and this possibility this availability that I put myself and that you accepted and that you could also be here for an hour talking to me, it's extraordinary and thank you thank you, thank you I don't know what to do with these things I'm terrible if there are compliments I'm terrible but thank you, seriously I was really happy it was unexpected for me your invitation, I'm very honest without false modesty it was unexpected, I wasn't expecting it and I was really happy and thank you also for the opportunity because it's always good my goal is always one I have the whole goal of talking first and the space I have here to give to real people and authentic people and transparent people, people that want to share I don't really want to bring and not that this has happened or that I think it could have happened it could have happened, naturally if this grew a lot, naturally there are people that could want to come here just to promote what they do it's a nature of things but I don't have that interest I really want people to be able to share to be transparent and bring that good thing that we have and your conversation was wonderful because I'm absolutely sure absolutely that by listening to this conversation people that could be going through something similar to what I went through or what you went through in that period or even what Rui went through that could be in a difficult phase or feel like they are entering a difficult phase and they can do one of two things they can get in touch with us I'm feeling like it or they just go directly to where they can and solve and we have to be more first we have to be complete we have to feel good we have to feel that we are enough because we are, we are not perfect we will never be, but we are enough I don't want to prolong but you touched on a point that I think is important I feel that in this community or at least in the people that work in the area of marriage there is a lot of fear of talking to each other especially if we come from the same area for example, people that do the same job as me I feel that and not long ago I received a message from a colleague that the fear came to ask me something random that I had seen in a story of mine and a lot of fear came to ask me and I said, if you don't want to answer, it's ok why? why? and I think that demystifying that side is also very important because we are here talking and talking and showing a little more of our other side which is not that of social networks and our work it is also very important to open a little bit of, ok, we can all talk I'm not going to steal your work, I'm not going to do your work I know that we work in the same area but we can only talk and share ideas share techniques I really enjoy doing it several people from the area that is I already have conversations with several people from the area in which we share techniques, ideas this and that, look at this flower it doesn't work well with this and that it doesn't matter, whatever, we all have to win with that all of us and just this little aside from I feel that there is a lot of this fear and I think that your sharing is perfect because it will link in such a good way with an episode like this and with Rui, because we ended up doing something very similar so it was perfect I'm not saying that I'm your perfect guest me too best guest ever look it was a great thing thank you Rui thank you, thank you, kisses we have reached the end of this episode and if you liked it, I ask you to subscribe to the podcast and see you next week