Crescimento contínuo como filosofia de vida

episode: 36 title: "Ep. 36 - Crescimento contínuo como filosofia de vida, com Daniela Baptista" pub_date: "Mon, 02 Jun 2025 05:00:00 +0000" original_language: english source_audio: "c1bb57ad.mp3"

Hello, welcome. I'm Rui and this is the The Wack Podcast. Before we move on to the episode, I'd like to share with you a novelty and that I believe could be the beginning of some very interesting things. I'm finally organizing the first Wack meeting that will take place in Alcobaça on June 17th, at the Monastery. It will be in the afternoon and we will bring together some professionals that are absolutely extraordinary in our area of weddings and we will talk about several global themes in each of the conversations but I believe that the themes will naturally cross each other. It will be a small event, so if you are interested in going, I advise you to sign up as soon as possible and you can do it on the website www.weddingartistcommunity.com.events It has a form, just fill it out and I think all the information is there. Any questions you have, do not hesitate to contact me and I hope to see you there. See you soon and now we continue with the episode. Daniela, welcome! It's really a pleasure to have you here. I'm very curious, I have a lot to ask you, that's why I was saying not to have lunch first, right? Because then I have to compete. But the first question, which is a bit funny, which is, considering that you are so young and you have been working on this for almost 10 years, or more than 10 years, did you already walk when you started getting married? Yes, yes, I was already walking. But how did you start? So, first I never thought about it, I think this is a bit like everyone else, I didn't study for this, I didn't know I wanted to be a wedding planner, this also came up in my life at a time when it was important to emerge. I took gastronomy and culinary arts. Really? So, nothing to do with this. I always really liked to cook. I took this course a bit for personal taste, so ... Oh, but you took the course? Yes, I took it. Food production in restoration, which is a course, so it's a bachelor's degree, and before this bachelor's degree I had taken a course in gastronomy and culinary arts. At the time I always liked cakes a lot. Cakes, making birthday cakes, cakes ... At the faculty of pastry, it was always my favorite chair. And linked to this, the management part. I was also very good at management, although I was terrible at math when it came to the management of companies and the management of stocks. I always liked this part a lot. And then there was the possibility of going to a hotel in Algarve, where I was working in the food and drink part, I was a management assistant. However, there was the possibility of a possible position in the wedding part of that hotel. The girl who was there was leaving. I thought it was a good idea to send the resume internally, which was inside the same chain. I competed, I got it, I fell in love with it, I did two seasons there in Algarve, which is a little different from what I now defend at UNIQ. So those were literally package weddings, right? Yes, a wedding factory. An authentic factory, we were not wedding planners, we were space coordinators and we worked with wedding planners. And that's it, the first year I did about more than 100 weddings, I don't remember right now, in the second year, I did about 70. And so I won the little bug here. You won a little bug, you were completely overwhelmed, right? Yes. But that was in what year, more or less? This was 2015, 2015 and 2016. And then in 2016 I went back to Lisbon, because my family is from Lisbon. But then where did the course go? The course was in Estoril. I studied in Estoril. I went back to Lisbon, I saw that crazy idea of ​​launching myself in the market. My parents, by the way, my parents always supported me in everything, but in this crazy idea I think it was a bit like, but who is going to marry in Portugal? Because I always wanted destination weddings. I always wanted to, as I liked being in a hotel, dealing with the foreign audience, I won this little bug. I won the little bug for Indian weddings, because I did my first one there. And when I told my parents that, yes, this is what I wanted, I remember at the time, my first computer from UNIQ was my father who offered it to me. But I felt a lot of that scene of, be careful, prepare the floor a lot, because this may not work, business is always like that, whoever likes us is always saying, be careful, be careful, be careful. Meanwhile, I did everything in 2016, I did the business plan, this all took a long time, and then I was also working for another site to be able to support company expenses, which is also a bit boring to talk about. Did you create the business logo? Yes, I created the logo, registered the brand, so I did the business plan, I structured very well what I wanted, what I wanted to give priority, what was not so important to me at that time. I did all that work, the marketing study at the time, but there it is, in the client event, because it is an interesting thing, in our case, we always work for a year in a row, it was a boring time, it was in January, it was a time when I would not be able to close anything for the year I was, so I just launched myself in 2017, which was when I made my first weddings at UNIQ. You talked about the business plan, which is always a funny thing, because I had planned to talk about this later, which is something that is very unusual at weddings, because we are all artists, there are some artists, in which I include myself, but the idea of ​​the business plan, and I have an interest in economics, I have a past in economics, and a taste for it, so it is something that I always found funny, but then there is a big difference between a formal business plan, truly institutional, or what is actually practical. What did you do at the time? Did you make a plan for what were your ideas? Or did you just say what you wanted and how did you think it would get there? At the university, I think it was the last job, we made a business plan related to what we wanted to do, because this is a course that I did, it is a course that chefs do, so usually what they want is to open a restaurant or do anything, so we have a lot of this part of the management, which teaches us a little bit later to launch ourselves into the market. When I made the business plan for UNIQ, I did it based on what I had learned in college, it was a sketch of what I wanted, or what I imagined it would be, now if you ask me if I still risk everything, and if everything that was there was well thought out, nowadays not, but at that time it made sense to me to understand. But that's the cool part, when you set a goal, it's like going from here, you're going back from Guimarães to Leiria, you know where you're going, but if there's an accident on the road, you have to fix it, this is exactly your life as an entrepreneur. This happened to me, it's one of the things that I like the most, being in the entrepreneurship part is this, you adapt, things come up in your path, in which you yourself learn to be another person, you change several times along the way, until you can identify yourself. And what was the main change you had? Look, in 2019 I think it was the biggest change, I wasn't prepared for what happened to me in 2019, I was very young at the company level, but on the one hand, I'm glad it happened to me, which gave me that boost to be able to jump, which was, I had a lot of problems, without knowing it, with a huge wedding, that I wasn't at least mentally prepared for, I was professionally prepared, I was able to do it perfectly, but mentally I wasn't ready for that kind of people. And in 2019 I had to change my vision a little bit, and nowadays I'm a lot of what I learned in 2019, which was really what I value as a wedding planner, what this client wants, what my clients are looking for, what is most important to them, how can I make this incredible experience, and make use of the money they are really spending. In 2019 I faced a huge project, I went to Dubai several times because of that project, I joined a company, the wedding was here, but it was all more like, Daniela, we need you for the week, here's your flight, here's your hotel, I got to the airport, there was a Bentley waiting for me, I got to the people's mansion, there were like 20 people working in that house, things like that. And I wasn't prepared, I had never lived that, I wasn't born in luxury, I didn't grow up in that, I never studied, on the contrary... I think there are few people who live at that level. There are very few people that I knew, that could help me in that part, so this all came up in my life. So it's funny that you asked me about this change, because it was there, in that wedding, that I learned to understand several things, and I found it super curious, in the end, to ask the clients, like, don't take my genuine question the wrong way, and I really want you to be honest with me. They doubled my wedding planner value at the time, they said, what's your value? And they said, we'll pay you double. This, at first, was a slap in the face that I took, and then, at the end of the project, I asked, don't get me wrong, but why did you choose me? Like, Portugal, why did you choose me? They knew that I had opened a company in 2017, this was two or three years later, and they said, we chose Portugal because of you, you could have been in Japan, we would have chosen Japan, you were you, and this really touched me, and in 2019, it was like that. But how did this happen to you? Do you know that Astros aligned themselves to... I have no idea. And when I was with them for the first time, in the inspection days, I never in my life thought that it was a project of theirs, as it was, it was something really crazy, that opened many horizons for me, they teach me a lot, in the good and in the bad, because I think that there are always these big projects, they also always teach things not to repeat, what you can change to get better, and this was my boost, where do I want to position myself? Ok, maybe I was very focused on the part of the experience, I always had, because it was what I learned, both in my school and at the hotel, it was always based on the guest experience, not here, here it was a bit, what are the clients looking for? How can I make them want this? Wow, this is amazing. So, I changed and realized, ok, I like to be here, this is where I want to be, how can I do to accompany? So, basically, that showed you a path that you didn't know you wanted. I didn't know what I wanted, when I opened Ionica, I didn't know, I wanted to do weddings, I wanted to organize that day, organize the experience and the weekend of the couple, when they arrive, having a bus or a shuttle at the airport, take them, have everything very organized, have good food, good wines, I was always a lot around the experience, but never around the details, and this wedding had no details. So, but the way I'm understanding it, at the time you had the experience you wanted before, it was to have nothing going wrong, everything going super smooth. And what you went through afterwards was, ok, not only to have everything going well, but some points here or there that are something special. Is that the definition of the change? Yes, and learn to select, that's it. At the supplier level, what do we want? Who do we want to work with? Why do we want to work with these people? What are the certainties or the stability? And I'm very into all this, of emotions, of working with people I've liked for many years, I like to create a circle here, which is my network of support, that I know I can count on those people for everything, because that's it. It's all very beautiful and our work is beautiful, but there's always something there that happens, we have to go around the day, and I think we feel very confident to be with people who already know us, and who can help us at that moment. And this marriage teaches me that, it teaches me to value, to understand who I want, to understand the quality, to define some kind of strategy, so there it is, I had to change, and the details, to value the details, which are what actually make the difference, the experience and the details, which was missing in this part. It's part of the experience, it's just a matter of first certifying that things are going well, and then you go to the next step. I imagine you must know the book Unreasonable Hospitality, by Will Guderra. I don't know if I know it. It's from the restaurant, it was from the Eleven Medicine Park restaurant, I think, which was in 2014 or 2015, the best restaurant in the world, and he talks about, I heard the audiobook and it's extraordinary, I remember it because it's incredible, because he talks about that, about the restaurant where the chef was already 3 stars Michelin, and 4 stars Times, so you already had the maximum ratings, but the restaurant was still at number 50. And then, how do you manage to get there first? And it's all in these little things, in the service, which went well, but then you want to go up to the next step, and it's super interesting to do that. It's a journey, it's always been like this, every year it's something different. Every couple, every wedding, it's always something different that we take, we put it in the baggage, and we understand which is the best path. Is this enthusiasm for you? Yes, I like it a lot, I love emotions, I love people, I love meeting people, I fall in love very quickly with everyone who appears in front of me, by the way, my friends say that, that I'm very kind and that I'm very humble, I think I'm a humble person, but I really like to be like that, I like to be, I'm genuine, I like to be natural, and for me, I believe, all the people who appear in my way, I believe they are like that too. So, these learnings are good, and it's what defines a person to be a businesswoman. Yes, it's true. I think, I have this perspective, and it's similar, which is of the genre, I prefer to give myself, easy, and then if I fail, it's over. That's it, that's the point. And then there are people who are the opposite, who take longer to give themselves, and from the moment you know that they are confident enough to give, from then on it's for life. And I don't have problems with that, with the disillusion, because... It's part of it. It's part of it, right? Well, that's why I prefer to... Surrender. I'm like that too. I believe in that a lot. But look, you were talking a little bit about managing teams and people, do you think we have a team spirit in our industry? It's getting better and better, I think, at least that's what I feel. I think that, apart from photography and video, I've always seen a lot of spirit around me. I've always got along very well with photographers and videographers, and I've always lived a lot of lunches and dinners and their get-togethers. I've always found it very interesting. In the planners, it's a path that's being taken, it's been positive, I think for everyone, I think it's missing this, because ten years ago, when I started, there was no help like there is today. Like, hello guys, I need this, hello guys, I need that. Everyone was always doing their own job, I saw the work of others, but I don't know, I don't know why, I don't know if it's because we're all women, I have no idea, I don't have a possible justification for this. That's why I think so, I think we're getting better and better at working as a community, and in terms of team management. Yes, I think so. At least I don't see anything that could... I was referring more to the industry. It's obvious, we all have good experiences. The difference that you also have, that you naturally feel more, is how you are controlling or hiring or recommending a good part of the suppliers, naturally it's more controlled. But from the experience you have outside of that, do you think that on the day, with that... I already understood your question. Do you think that on the day, that spirit of solving problems, like, ah, it's going to happen, it's going to happen? Those who work with us know that we are there for whatever is necessary. If a column is needed, anything, whatever it is, my team goes and does it. I don't need to move a table because, in the meantime, anything happened, my team goes and does it. In the same way that we already had some incidents in projects, obviously, and other teams, because the responsible teams were no longer there, other teams, like, left us. I think so. I think that those who work with us, at least I think I never had that question of, look, we need to do this, can you help me? And I never had a no. I thought you were talking more about the other part. Yes, yes, yes, also, also. But yes, because... There it is, I think it's a part that is the fact of... I can't say that I have bad experiences in relation to that because, in reality, I think we don't have... There are always more proactive people to help outside of their field. Yes. But it's... I think it's what you were saying, it's a path we're on and we're doing it in an interesting way. And then, in relation to photographers and videographers, that thing is like brothers. Literally, photographers and videographers... I know, but that was your question, in the industry part. We spend our lives saying bad things about each other, but in reality... We like each other a lot, but I think you also touched on that point of the time of... The time of... Of the market, right? Photographers and videographers have been around for decades. And videographers less. Videographers have less time. But I remember when I started, I heard stories of an old girl who was bad. Really bad. Because it was a big street competition and all that. But still today. Exactly, we sometimes have this... We have this... We have this bubble and we don't know we're in it. And that's it, it's that crowd we had recently. And maybe you're able to gather 150 professionals from several areas in which we are in a way of being, in which we think we are many doing that. But the amount, the thousands that exist in this country. The vast majority, I said it was clearly the 80-20. 80% of the people continue to do it the same way they always did. And I think it continues with this crazy competition and all that. I feel happy to be in the other 20, because clearly many of my friends are... They are photographers and videographers and... And now they start having from other areas too. And it's cool, it's spectacular. You can share some pains, which is also something that happens when we are alone in a business, which is... You don't have many people to share with, right? You have Elsa, who understands you, but... There are days, a few. But in the planners, practically... Sometimes you also have those who open up in society and start with someone, of course. But most of all, people start... They are the same experiences you live. For example, I felt many of these questions and fortunately, we don't need to. We started here in 2010. We met a lot of amazing people. Andréia Sofia, Carlos from Videowarte. One or two years later, we met Vanessa and Ivo. So, for a long time, we met amazing people and we all grew up together. Some of them were older, they had more experience. Like André. But the market itself was young. André was a bit ahead on the way. But we were still developing a lot. And we had more varied conversations. We had time limits. Those things... The very way of structuring PECs. We talked a lot about this. And it was always super interesting. I imagine what it would be like if you didn't have someone to talk to. Because it doesn't mean... The interesting thing we had in the retreat was that, as it was a first, you were sharing what you were doing. It was still very OK, let me put the cards on the table, that's cool. And then when the conversation continues, sooner or later you think, I was trying to do this, but it doesn't really make sense, if I do it the way she does it, it's much cooler. And there is this learning, and there is always a cycle, and I think that's when you start to feel things growing. Yes, it's very difficult when you start this type of business, in my opinion, alone and without that support. You can't exchange ideas and ways of working, it's very complicated. It's a very complicated management, because there it is, you work with emotions. And we don't work just on that day, or we don't have access to the timeline two or three weeks before, like you do. We literally have a year, a year and a half to create that for the client. And we work a lot, we always know the couple, sometimes we are psychologists, and sometimes you don't have anyone to vent and a person who understands you. Sometimes you don't even talk so much about prices and ways of working, but it's really just, look, this happened to me today, what do I do? And there it is, it's very complicated when you start alone. Nowadays I'm really, really happy to have a great team, that I can vent everything I need with them and them with me. Because, I don't know, I don't know how I used to do it 8, 9, 10 years ago. It was really complicated. We are not solitary animals, we need to have people. And simply someone who hears about it, because I've talked about it many times, how many friends are away from weddings? Although our experience as a photographer, as a planner, or as a caterer, or whatever, it's completely different. But you know what it's like to work with a fiancé, you know what it's like to be at weddings. You will always have a greater understanding than a friend of yours who works at a bank or at a restaurant, you know? And that's the interesting part of having the conversations, right? And you are starting to have that now, which is really cool. But have you had it before or is it really a very recent thing? With sharing? No, no, I talk to some people in the area very well, with Ivna, with Isabel, and with other people too, but more with them, because I don't know how, but we got involved here, like, the same pains, you know? So I really like them. Isabel, I don't know if it's because she's from the north, she's super straight to the point. You know what, all the cool people are here. Not all of them, some of them are over there. And Ivna is really close to me too. But yeah, I talk to several other people in the area too, but with them, yes, I share a lot sometimes. But is it recent? Not so recent. So I don't know if it takes time, but it was a long time before I retired. Oh no, what I'm saying is recent, a few years. Yes, yes, yes, recent, a few years, yes, yes. The first time I started meeting people from the area, my direct competitors, with whom I realized I had some margin there to be able to deal with this person, was when we started meeting, or doing some kind of event where we all go together. Because it was something that, I confess, I didn't even go. Because I was afraid of being there alone and not knowing what to do, with who to do it with. So, I don't know how, in visits, things like that, it started to come up, we started going, we started picking up those who went, then also Marta from Como Branco, I talk to her a lot too. We started creating a cycle of people who surrounded us, and that's it. Then we worked a lot with the same suppliers, so then we also heard a lot, look, when you need something, speak up, she's awesome, she can help you. So, little by little, I think the suppliers also felt the lack of this, of this union on our part, because we are a very important element here, and then it all came together. I think it's a supernatural evolution, because the fact that I have a lot of colleagues, a lot of people I like, can you move the microphone? I have a lot of colleagues, people I like, but I'm not friends with all of them. I consider that I have, I don't know, maybe five or six friends, in fact, but we get along well with many, and that's the interesting part, because you create friendships with those who naturally happen, and even they sometimes come and go, and are part of it, because they are different phases of life, but the fact that you have that feeling that you can talk, you can ask questions, and people will do just that, it's an incredible feeling. It's very personal, like Ivna, we were at an event, a very personal thing, I had a problem because of breastfeeding, and who took care of me was Ivna, with medication, with everything, so it's very personal things, it's not personal. You create friendships, because Elsa also went through a series, I imagine, with three children, getting married, you go through some easier than others, because then, it's only worth sharing, and they have children, so it's easier, because they both, in the end, I think it's because we have children, of the same age, and sometimes even more personal things, you identify with certain people, in certain phases, and that's one of the things that's interesting, even because in the marriage, the question I had here, one of the questions I had, you have a husband with a demanding profession, who is away for a long time, how do you have time for everything? You have 347 abs, that you do before 6am, how do you do all this? Because it's not easy, but I imagine you are an organized person. Yes, it's a matter of time, I always had a good management, since I was little, my parents put me in swimming, in the choir, here and there, I always had a lot to do, so nowadays, a lot of people ask me this, and it's funny, I organize myself really well, I'm very happy, I'm very happy to have left Lisbon, to have gone there, to the village, my village is called Samor, it's really a village, it's really super peaceful, it's called Samor, and I'm fine, I'm calm, I have a calm mind, I have a very good division, in the morning with the boys, then I go to my training, then I can take my lunch time before, to be able to go to the CrossFit, then I end up not being able to have lunch, I eat in front of the computer, but this is also part of it, I organize very well, the meetings I have are almost all after noon, because of the couples being in the United States, and therefore I have a good time management, then it's 5.30am, I'm going to pick up the boys. You can not waste time with Parvo, right? Yes, I also like to be Parvo sometimes. I also, by the way, it's not a matter of liking, I have no hypothesis, I have no alternative other than being, but what I mean is, it's very easy, we both waste time with things that don't matter, and I've been through phases of the genre, where you literally don't have energy, or something is missing, and there's so much I want to have time to do, that I don't do, and then I lose an hour, doing the movement, for those who are listening, and it makes me even more frustrated, which is, at this time I could have been busy doing something more interesting, that is, you can control that. I can. During the day, I practically don't even use social networks. At the end of the day, I also try to be a little bit with the boys, to give them attention, then when they go to sleep, I spend some time on social networks and writing. I really like to write, I dedicated myself now, for example, to write a lot of things that I was missing, because I went to Corujo, to spend the weekend, I was there in a super nature place, I was inspired, and I spent time writing. I use my free time to do things that are not always related to work, sometimes there are some things for me, but I try not to spend a lot of time on social networks, I try not to spend a lot of time watching, it's good to see what others are doing, which is a lot of what is present on Instagram, and I can make that distinction well, but I don't want it to be a condition, and sometimes it's very complicated in certain phases, for example, this is something that is happening to me now in the company, we did rebranding, we changed our site, we put the values ​​on our site, and we, at the level of projects for 2026, we noticed a large number, we still have some requests, but we noticed that the number of requests has decreased, because we changed our approach, we have a totally different image, much more aligned to what we represent, and I am totally confident in this. And do you feel a difference? Yes, always. By the way, it's a question that leaves me curious. And this makes me sad, because I don't want to spend a lot of time on Instagram, because sometimes those people say I don't want to see those things, because I don't want it to affect me, because I know we are making our way. Yes, I also have that doubt, that thumb behind the ear, but it makes me angry, and I don't want it. It is what it is. But one thing I really like is when I see those texts about now booking. Yes, because yesterday you were not there. I think it's a marketing strategy, which for me doesn't work, because it wants to work in a slightly different way. And there is a lot of that based on who really wants to come after us, and who identifies with us, will be able to close our services, and we will be able to get that client to come to us. But right now, for example, our year 2026, I don't know if it's because of the instability of the world or not, I don't know, I have no idea what's going on. I know we didn't increase our values, our values are now visible, we didn't increase our values. In year 2026, for example, we have two. For those who are in April, to compare this with other years, we already had 4 or 5. We don't do many either, we do 8 or 10 per year, it depends on their size, but right now I would like to be a little more secure. And there it is, this is one of those things that if we have a person who is with us, like a partner, someone who understands us, that person will understand, because we have three orders to pay, we have things that are far beyond being just one person working. The company took on other dimensions. And that's why this is going to get a little bit what we were talking about a little while ago, which are these pains that are not always related to the specific marriage, but it is really on the part of the company itself. Because it was something I really wanted to talk to you about. We live in this area, we live a very disparate and very extreme thing sometimes, which is that a large part of people work on this, because they really like beautiful things and like the creativity that is associated with it. And there are other people who really like the management part. And we all have to have it, you always need to have a creativity associated with that. And if you're in this, it's because you like beautiful things, but you also have to learn to manage, you have to learn to look at the numbers. And just a little point, you said you don't like math, but that's one of the things... I didn't like it, now I'm forced to like it. Yes, but it's something that is sometimes difficult for those who are not, who will not realize that math has nothing to do with management. Management is more or less dividing and multiplying. There's nothing else. You can do a number of things that help you, but you don't need anything else. As for math, I've always liked math, but eighth grade math is more complex than managing a company. So it's not because I don't like math, because it's all very abstract, and when you manage the company, you're talking with, it's not numbers anymore, but you're talking with gold symbols, which is always much more interesting to do the sums. The sums of expenses are not always fun, but how do you deal with it? Is it something you like? I like it a lot, I like to smile a lot, and I like to work comfortably so I don't even have margin for error. I don't like to make mistakes, if I sound very professional. And do you deal well with that? I do, I deal well with it. Sometimes it's a little tricky, but yes, I deal well with it. But how do you do that? I was going to ask you, you have that question of realizing the number of orders, but do you always keep track of them? No. The number of orders? Yes, I check it weekly, not monthly, but I check it weekly. And obviously, when everything is fine in my life, I like to go to social media. Social media inspires me, social media brings a lot of positive things, but when I see that it's not always... I don't mean that I'm not doing well, I'm doing well, but we have phases, I don't know if it has to do with... I don't know how to justify this, I know it's not just with me, I know it's with several other companies that it's the same. So what I do is, I try not to go there so much to understand how I'm spending my time. I'm making this year of 2025 the best year ever. I'm doing what I've always wanted to do, among all the personalized weddings, like the ship guards, towels made by us, because there it is, it was one of my biggest steps as a company, to have put a designer in the company. We were able to do things that I didn't even know we could do, because now we have that part, we have that whole part that is important, which is aesthetics, but I'm no longer doing some mock-ups on PowerPoint, they are beautiful presentations, they are brutal 3Ds, they are patterns that we were able to create and send to the factory for production, they are dance tracks, so this year, as we have a team now, each person is focused on their own things, we were able to dedicate a lot of time to personalization and do things that we never did. So I'm dedicating my time like this, I'm dedicating my time, instead of going there to see what's going on and who already has 20 weddings and so on, I'm dedicating my time to the team, let's do this, let's do that, how can we be different? And there it is, then what will come, will come. We have to build our path. And how has it been to manage a team of three people? I love it. Daniela is in Funchal, and Inês is in Sintra. I met Inês through weddings, so she worked in another design company, also from the area, and she is in Lisbon, in Funchal, but we are amazing, and then the other people, each person has their own business, for example Bruna, she has a bikini company, nothing to do, she designs the bikinis, produces, then there is Margarida, who works in the house management part. But those are not all the time, someone is all the time besides you? Yes, exactly, Daniela, who is also another, and Inês, we have a contract with them, and they do all our projects. They are freelancers, but they are freelancers as they should be. I like to have the same people, I think it's good to spend from year to year the same faces, and the person will gain experience, and then they can use that experience for the following year, because in weddings, first, second, third, fourth, you learn how to manage, you have to work in the field, and they are very good in the field, they do not come with this emotional load of the couple, with this load of stress, but they are very good to solve problems. That's it, that's what you need. Yes, that's impressive. And it is really necessary, because there it is, as you said a while ago, you spend a year, sometimes more, literally, to author the couples, some are easier than others, then you get to the day, and if you are already full of them to author, go there and solve everything. Like everything in life, they balance very well. Each person has their own values, each one has the best of themselves, that brings, can go to me, it is very good to have these people always. Do you have any tools, your management, your daily planning, do you use tools like CRMs, or do you use things like that, or are you more of a notebook? No, no, no, both. I have three notebooks, each with a different color, I have many notebooks already used, I have a closet just with notebooks, with crayons and things, but we really operate with software. We have, we like, not only for the planning part, but for the management of the initial order, knowing when we have to do the follow-up, specific wedding planning. Yes, specific wedding planning. And then we have the part of our internal checklists, like who is with what, how are we doing this part, we started implementing that, because there it is. We are all far away, right? Me in Leiria, Daniela in Funchal, whenever there is a wedding, Daniela comes to Portugal Continental, she is there, it's okay that she is there at the same time, but she is further away, and she needs to orient herself, Inês too, and that's it. We have our checklist tools, and then we have the design part, Inês uses her software, don't ask me, I have no idea, that creative part goes through me, but she completes it, and many of the little things this year go through her, her mother, this part, we have very similar tastes, so I totally trust her, and the planning part goes through me and Daniela, we do the management of both, always based on a software, we have the management of the client's budget, but before that, we have the follow-up, the follow-up of the order, who came in contact, if it closed, if it didn't, to do all the metrics. Or the workflow, the management of the workflow. But without that, it was not possible, because we are not just one, now with more people, we really need to have online tools. Yes, and apparently, this helps us a lot, the problem that usually happens is that they are softwares, they are applications that have a very large investment, and it's not money, because they are relatively cheap, it's an investment of time, but you need an investment of time, and I do that, in the low season I do that, and then no one ever wants to spend a month ... Who included me in this was Daniela, I was super honest with her, I said, Daniela, I already bought, I already had it at the time, I had never been able to enjoy it for lack of time, and because the team I was in didn't give me that free time for me to be able to have that management, but Daniela said, look, let's bet on the low season to start, and we had already started this in the winter, not this year, last year, we entered very well, because we entered with everything aligned, and this year too, so Daniela, I don't know if it's a name or not, but she has the other part of the organization too, and then, sometimes I need things from the software, Daniela, you can do this, she goes and does it, I won't even go there, because she messes with that, she dominates that so well that ... Yes, but is it a CRM? We use Wild Planner, which has that part in there, but I specify for our area, everything is included, it says, the client, from the moment it comes, you put the client there, you can do the client track, and then you have the part of the client when it closes, there comes the part of the budget, the timeline, the checklist, the notes, the contacts, the suppliers, that's it, there it goes more for the client, then you have the other internal part, which is your part, then you have Martin's part too, I don't know if it's the best, but for now, and for the time we have, it helps us a lot to be able to... Yes, there is probably a better one, there is what you will adapt, and in terms of CRMs, what is missing is... There are dozens, but sometimes some are too complex, some are too simple, and one of the things... Yes, sometimes one of the things that bothers me in my specific case is that our CRM is from Pixi 7, which is specific for wedding photographers, but then you can't use the invoicing module, for example, because it's in the United States, and you can use it from a tracking perspective, but invoicing there, then in the Portuguese invoicing... No, we don't use that part, there you also have that part, we don't use it, we send the invoices because there it is. But it's different, we also do a few projects, we can go back and maneuver these things, do some direct things that are better, but... Yes, yes, of course, it's just a curiosity, because in reality we don't have something like that, it's someone who has something for sale, or resale, or whatever, and spends 50 invoices a day, another thing is someone who has 10 clients, you can spend several invoices, because they are divided, but in reality, over a year, you are able to spend 20 or 20 on anything, right? Because it doesn't justify that much, but I have it. But for us, specifically, our services, it's easier. And then the other things that we sell, that go through us, to spend an invoice, something that I dedicate, for example, there you are, the time, we talked about it a while ago, for me, Tuesdays is the day of payments and invoices. So I have written everything I have to do, I have a folder with what I need to pay, who I need to pay, the amounts, I have Excel, I have everything oriented, I arrive on Tuesday morning, I go to the CrossFit, I sit down, and for 3 hours I'm there, doing the payments, spending invoices, what I need, what I don't need. It's my day of the week after the payments. I think that's spectacular, I really do. You know, could you really teach this? I already did. I know. I already did. Because lately, when did you get the idea to create your personal brand, to start training in wedding planning? When I was 30 years old. You felt old, didn't you? 30 years old, now I have to start. That's it, I like constant challenges in my life. I like adrenaline, I like all those things. And I felt that part of, what can I do now? I know a teacher who invites me, practically every year, to go to college, to give specific classes on a certain part of weddings. I like to talk, I like to motivate people to be able to do what they want to do, whether it's wedding planning or anything else, but when they hear me, they can feel the motivation and the inspiration, that I also want to do it and I'm going to start. Because deep down I did that. I was living alone, I needed to pay my bills, and I started. A person is not afraid and goes, and only happens to those who have the courage to start. And this part of the personal brand arose because I needed this boost in my life. And since I didn't want to have another child, I didn't want to have another child. You still have time. I like children a lot. It's a lot of work, but I like them a lot. And they know how to take us. I have a younger, more authentic Guno, but he says, just put a little bit here, and you forget everything else and go on. But when did you create that? It was last year, I'm 31 now, so a year ago. And at the time I already knew I wanted to sell the products, I knew I wanted to help someone, I knew more or less what I wanted. But then I thought, well, first I'm going to show who I am. I'm going to release some videos, I'm going to talk a little bit about some important topics, to create a little bit of content here. And that's how I started. And then I was structuring things, how I wanted to do it, how I didn't want to do it. I met a copywriter who interviewed our couples to make a copy of Uni, she did a great job. So she even talked to the couples, to understand who Uni is, who Daniela is, what the couples say about you, and it was an amazing job. I was like, wow. The first meeting she didn't even talk to me, she took some notes, then she asked for permission to talk to four couples, some past ones and some that were going through the process. She did this amazing job, she structured a vision that I was like, this is me. And that's why I thought, ok, I'm going to take a step in my personal brand. I talked to her too, she accepted the challenge, she did the work for me on a personal level. And that's it. And nowadays, I don't know if it's successful or not, because I think that... It's still recent. That's it. And I still haven't been able to publish it the way I want. Now, I think it's something that needs to be improved. What are the next steps? I think it's important to have an in-house person for the digital marketing. It's very important, and especially in this part of the personal brand and where I want to reach, I need someone to be there, to show what's there. Because we don't have time for that, we don't. And I'm the one who does my posts on Unique, I'm the one who writes my stuff and that's it. But... I don't have time. I already had an agency, now... I think the next step would be to have an in-house person. Why? They get to know us, they understand what's important to show, they understand what the couple is looking for. And maybe we don't have to publish every day, because we won't have content to publish every day on Unique. But when we publish, whenever, we go to the important details that the couple values, you know? I need someone, maybe. What would be most interesting for you? Would it be to have someone do the part, to take Unique's work away, so you can focus more on the training part, or someone in the training part, so you can spend more time planning? No, no. I'd say the part of having Unique secured and focusing more on that part. It's a new enthusiasm, right? Yes, and I also... There it is. I'm really happy with the team we have. And my... My ambition, too, was to keep giving... Small companies always have that question of... What are the next steps? So I see a lot... I don't want Daniela to feel like that. I think a lot about the well-being of the people with me. And, for example... You're talking about another Daniela. Yes, I'm talking about another Daniela. I thought she was talking about you in the third person. No, no, no. I'm talking about another Daniela. So I think a lot, like... Okay, she's going to be two years old. Like... What's going to make her happy, too, right? At the professional level. At the professional level. I knew she liked weddings. I met her at a wedding. She was working for a space. And I went to a wedding. And I fell in love with her. There it is. I'm in love with people. And I said to Daniela... Look, do you accept the challenge? She accepted it. And so I think a lot about her. So I think the next steps are a lot. I was able to focus on this part. Of the products. Selling material that is important to other people. And having Daniela going up more and more. And even... Why not, like... Managing her... A big part. Do you understand? Because when people are good, we have to give them value. And I love giving value to people. Are you an ambitious person? A lot. But positively. I don't see any negative points in ambition. I think that sometimes... Yes, it's true. The term ambition is used a lot when you're talking about winning. That's what I was going to say. Or similar things. I was going to correct myself. That's it. You got where I wanted to get. Yes. But yes, I'm ambitious. How... You already answered a part. But how do you see yourself in the next few years? Business-wise. How do you see yourself? I'm a person that I'm still discovering myself. Even on a personal level. I even thought that the first question you were going to ask was... Who is Daniela Batista? And I was going to say... I'm always there. Like... I was going to say... Rui, I don't know if I'm going to be able to answer who I am right now. But let me just make a parenthesis. Because you're very young and you've achieved a lot. Yes. In business terms, in terms of brand, in terms of professional success. And not only that. But you're really very young. It's not very common. There aren't many people that I know in various areas. That with 30 or 31 already have a company with the level you have. That's why... And you speak with continuous enthusiasm. Hence my question. How do you imagine... Because in Portugal it's not very common. We have this thought of... What's the next step? What's the next step? And it's not that you have to have it. But I think... I also like these things. I find it super interesting when I see someone who always thinks about the next step. Hence my question. What's your next step? I really like your question. I'm going to be as honest as possible. And in a few years we're going to be listening to this and say... Wow, this was really funny. So... At Unique's level, it's like I said. My desire right now is to make Daniela and Inês... And someone that will join the team in the future... Always grow and always keep Unique there. That it's always going to be that company. It's always going to be my first baby. It's always going to be that company that was creating names. That was creating... Leaving the footprint. The personal brand part... I'm developing. Now, how do I see myself in a few years? That's what you asked me. I would like to invest in another business. Or in other businesses. There it is. It's the question you asked if I'm ambitious. I am. I'm ambitious. I think I have a way for business. I think I have a way for people. I have a way for... And I have a lot of ideas. It's a defect that I have. I'm always writing. One of those little books that I used to tell you... It's like... What can I do differently? How can I do this? How can I do this? So... I already have some ideas of some businesses that I would like to set up. Footprints... Things that I realized are... Flaws that exist. I don't know which one... I'm sure that by the end of this year I'll launch something. I have no idea which one it will be, but I know I'll launch it. And that's it. So, you see yourself as the owner of a conglomerate. No! No, but... I like to have things to do. I like to have things to do. I don't like to be quiet. It's just more out there. And I know I have more... I don't know... 10, 15 years. Completely operational, I mean. After that, I want to enjoy my holidays, always. Without thinking about problems. Do you really think that's going to happen? Do you really think that you'll get to 45 and say I don't want to work anymore? That's my plan. I'm investing so that I can reform myself when I'm 45. That's my goal. So now I have to create... But you don't have money to be... You think I don't? No. I want to go to Japan. I don't know, let's go there. I want to be like that. How many months do you think you get bored of all that? That's not the question. Yesterday, my daughter, Beatriz, asked me... How did she ask me? If I wanted to reform myself. She asks me a lot of questions from time to time. A lot of deep ones. Yes, yes. You don't know half of it. But she asks me a lot of questions from time to time. Because she knows I talk and answer long. And she thinks it's fun. And my answer was, I don't want to reform myself. I literally want to work until I die. Now, what I liked was the goal. And I think... I think you'll agree with me. Because I think you have that kind of attitude as well. What I want is to be able to always choose if I want to work or not, when and in what. Because I can't imagine you... The vivacity you have now... Of course, when you're 60... I won't die. When you're 60, you won't have the physical freshness and the will to have content. I'm going to do CrossFit when I'm 60. Right, but there are things that change. Let me tell you. You have patience, but things change. But they change, it's undeniable. But people change a lot more than necessary. That's why you're doing your job well. But what I mean by that is... I think you'll have people who, in all phases of your life, will be creating things. Now, of course, when you're 60, if you're 65, or even before that, with 45, 50 or whatever, it doesn't seem like you're willing to stretch... I was playing with you. I imagined you were. Yes, a person with energy. I need to put things... When you're creative, you need to put things out there. Why do you have actors, musicians, and all those people who always work? Of course. We have a little animal inside of us. Yes, you have that will to create. And when you don't create, you die before you die. And I think it's a bit like that. You have that idea of... Of course, now you have a vivacity. Yes, it's different. A 31-year-old person is full of energy. Not all of them. I think it's a characteristic of yours. It's cool. It's always been like that. I never played with dolls, and I remember my parents having those do-dots boxes, and what I used to do was set up computers. Like, letters. And I used to play with the computer. While my friends played with dolls, I used to play with do-dots boxes, pretending I was writing. And now you play with a computer, and all you have is money. And now I wear glasses, but life goes around a lot, and I don't think I'll be able to do it. I would like to reform myself when I'm 45, but I know it won't be possible, but I won't be able to do it. It's not that it won't be possible, it's that I won't be able to do it. You can reform yourself formally, but you still have to work. I always want to do something. I'll always be that person who needs to be there, to do something. I'm not even talking about getting married, but to have something of my own, to be able to enjoy my rest, but to be there. I told Beatriz that my dream was to have a restaurant. But it's a restaurant without me working there. I don't want to do those crazy hours. I want to have money, invest it, and go there to have fun and eat. It's a very complicated life. It's only when I have a lot of money, when I don't know what to do, I open a restaurant. Basically to have fun. We're almost done, but I wanted to talk a little bit about your vision. We've already talked a little bit about the community, but I wanted to bring that a little bit to the Portuguese question. Can you have a perception of what the grooms, the clients, feel about Portugal? What do they think? What brings them here? Can you have a perception of that? Or rather, what is your perception of that? It has changed a lot. I think it has changed a lot. Initially, I think it was because of the question of literally cutting costs. Portugal is cheap. I've been saying this for years. Portugal is cheap. In the specific case of an Indian wedding, we can only have 200 or 250 guests. If it was New York or London, we would have 500 or 1,000. Because they invite cousins and cousins. So they cut people off because we have to travel. There was a lot of cutting costs. There is also a lot of cultural part in some clients. I'm not talking about Indians. There is the tradition of doing things abroad. And Portugal was not yet something very explored. It's starting to be, but until recently it hadn't been. So there was a lot of Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal was still a little hidden. What happened? What I notice is that all the values have changed. Ten years ago, the same space that didn't have the rent value, for example now, costs 10,000, 15,000 or 20,000 euros. A lot has changed. This has also changed the mindset of the person who comes to marry in Portugal. It has changed to not cut costs and cut the number of guests, because there are always many people who don't travel. I think now it's a lot in the perspective of let's go, it's a place with a good climate, good wine, good food, which is something they value a lot. And we will be able to give the possibility to our guests to stay there a few days before or after or if they leave the country. And there it is, it is linked to the experience. So I feel that many times the couples who come, they come because of the guest they visited. They stayed at the groom's house for the first couple's trip. And they think that this country has potential in terms of history, in terms of culture, to bring more people here. And a long time ago, I didn't hear that kind of Oh, I thought Portugal was cheaper. Oh, I stopped hearing that. It has changed. Yes, I think that especially in the case of Americans, I think I said this a few times, I already said it, I think I recorded it a few times myself, which is last year, in 2024, I think, was the first year in which the Americans, the American tourist, or the American visitor, surpassed the Spanish visitor, who was always our main visitor. And we are already being discovered. That's interesting. But we also had a couple in 2023, I think, who went on vacation. He had to stay 10 days in Portugal, rent a car and walk around. And then, ok, let's get married here. That's it, I think many times it's because of that feeling. Look, it's cheaper, let's save money, it doesn't happen anymore. Even for the amount that people pay for accommodation nowadays here in Portugal, for 2 or 3 days, or the flight, it wasn't even feasible there. So... One thing that almost shocked me at the meeting, at the retreat we had in Ericeira, I don't know who said it, I think it was Tamara, that there are places in Portugal that are more expensive than in Italy. I was also shocked. I don't know, I can't... We have that reality. We are working with places that cost 50,000 or 60,000 euros. For rent. For rent. It's crazy. There are places that didn't have... That's what I was explaining to you. There are places that didn't charge anything and that now, out of nowhere, cost 10,000 euros. And those are places that, if you ask me, compared to Italy, those places she was talking about, I think it was a Coliseum or whatever she was talking about, you can't compare them. No, of course not. I think this goes a bit to that question of ambition versus greed. Then people start to realize that this gives, gives, gives, and... It's the same thing as not seeing a specific table for certain things. Which is true, it will never happen because we are all in the open market. But then it's that question of... I already worked with people who told me this face to face. If I knew that weddings would be like this, I would have charged more than 15,000 euros. But why? Your job would be different. Like, your value... And then you have the others. You have a value for Portuguese weddings and a value for foreign weddings. Do you know why? Why do foreign customers have to pay more? By definition, it's not good. But there are cases where I can understand. For example, and in your case as a photographer, the responsibility that I have to photograph a wedding that cost 25,000 euros is not the same as a wedding that cost half a million euros. There are more things, there is more responsibility. Sometimes I use this example, if I take a Clio to wash and charge 10 euros, I think it's understandable. I don't trust people like Bentley to take me and charge me 10 euros, I trust people like that. And I think there is a margin for responsibility for what you are doing. A make-up of a bride is not the same as a make-up of a guest. I think it's not so much the work... No, I understand that. But of course, and even the issue of the foreigner and the Portuguese, it's difficult, and I understand it perfectly well, because sometimes I think it's justified. But I can understand your work as you are telling me. Because you really... But I agree that this work has to be done in an interview. In an interview. In a possible meeting with the client or the wedding planner. To understand a little bit who is going to be your client. To understand what is going to happen. But in the case of a make-up, or in the case of a hair, or there are other things, I can't understand. Because... There are cases, you know? You know? I can justify your work. Because maybe there can be a cost with someone else, at the level of an assistant or another photographer that you want to hire just to do certain details, because you are focused on something else. It's palpable. It's something you can justify. Do you know what I feel? It's a little bit... In these weddings, we are becoming a kind of Maldives... You look at the people who charge... For example, many years ago I went to Bulgaria. It was 16 years ago. And we met a girl from there, who worked in a hotel where we were, and we all went out together. And there was a time when we went to a food cart, and the guy said, wait there, I'll go there, because if you go, you'll pay three times what we pay. I can understand, in perspective, when you have countries with such a big discrepancy, what the Portuguese can pay, going back to weddings, what a Portuguese usually thinks of paying, speaking of photography, throughout our years, most of our clients, they all made good money. Doctors, businessmen... But what a doctor in Portugal is willing to pay... It has nothing to do with it. It has nothing to do with any employee who comes from the United States, and you think, I'm going to put a value for what is the Portuguese market, or for what is the American market. I'm not giving answers, you know? I'm asking this question that sometimes I have... But you can do that from the perspective of experience. The experience that I will provide to this type of client will not be the same to this type of client. Exactly, and I think the value has to go side by side. It's not going to the tables, Portuguese value, English value. You don't understand this. So I think it's a bit like... Of course, the spas come later, and all this mess, and they want, and they want, and they want, and then everyone asks for what they want. Spas that sometimes don't even offer cleaning of bathrooms, and that charge 10,000 euros. We have to deal with that part, for example. There it is. People then think, well, I'm going to send it to the air, if it catches, it catches. And this happens a lot. This happens a lot. I see this a lot. Because then I'm always talking to other people, like, oh, really, you paid for that? But if it was for you, why did I pay for this? So wait a minute, but why am I different from the others? Why is the value not the same? What was presented was the same, right? It's a bit like that. Or who says, like, if the person has bag X, or the ring in a certain way, I'm going to ask for Y. This is a bit... Yes, yes. That's why I think that happens. Spas are also feeling that. What do these other people feel? It's a bit like that question of, I want to make money. And I want to make money now, now, now, because this is giving, giving, giving. So if I can put this at 20, 30 thousand euros, why can't I put it? Yes. And there really are customers for that. And there are. But then we get a bit... The market is bursting. We don't keep up with the quality, sometimes. That's what I wanted to say. Yes, I think that's the central point. Because we're all trying, as we have this avalanche of the biggest market in the world, which is the American market, which I recently saw, I think it's over a trillion dollars a year, what is spent in the market. I don't think I'm saying in English, but if it's not that value, it's something... There? There, there, there. I think it's something absolutely megalomaniacal compared to what we're used to. So it's normal for a person to be trying to navigate the values that are coming here. To take advantage of it. Which is important. I also think it's exactly what you were saying, which is, if I'm going to present a service, or if I'm going to present a much higher amount, it's also necessary to have a sense of what they're used to. The American touches photography, but I don't think there's a big difference in photography. From what I've heard you say, it's more about... The experience, the guest experience at the hotels. Yes, the guest experience, the logistics, the production of the event. Exactly. That is, they, I don't think there should be a country... Okay, maybe China at other points, but in terms of event production, I don't believe there's anyone like in the United States. And they're used to a professionalism that probably doesn't exist anywhere else in the world. You have weddings in Lebanon as well, like the Lebanese weddings, haven't you seen that? I've never noticed that. Even in India, they're... Okay, it can't always have a lot of quality, sometimes there are structures that fall, we see those funny videos. But it's true, they do crazy productions. Okay, but there it is. That is, if you want to charge what they're used to paying, they might even be able to pay, because they're going to pay in other places. They don't come for 500, they only come for 200, so if the photographer really likes it, it's all okay. But it presents something that is interesting. And I think the mistake that a lot of people are making in the Portuguese market is, since they all come here, we're all going to charge a lot, but then we run the risk of... Losing everything. Yes. It's not losing... Of not being a place... Because I don't think there's a problem in Portugal being a cheap country, compared to Italy and France. We're in everything, and they have brands, they are countries with much stronger brands in a number of things, so I don't think it's necessarily a problem. But if we start being known for being expensive and bad... That's what I was going to say. We ruin it. Yes. That's it. But I think there's still a little bit of that issue. There's still a little bit of the issue of... We're charging a lot, and we're going to take advantage of the money we're charging, to get out of this lever. Because in two or three years, we can even charge more, because we're going to be able to invest more, but we're going to show results, we're going to invest in people, we're going to have qualified people who are providing a service to the client, with the client feeling like, wow, this is really worth it. It's okay, a four-star or a five-star here is not the same as a four-star or a five-star in Dubai, I know, but sometimes our five-star... I've even been in four-stars higher than five-stars. How is that possible? There's no such service, there's no such... It's sad sometimes, but that's what we have. And we have to work around this, and we have to do a lot of that Dubai work. Everything is going well, everything is going to be amazing, finally we're here. That's part of our job. We have to keep an eye on him. I think that's your big job for the next few years, which is to show... I've broken a lot of rocks, I've had a lot of headaches, but I think it's part of your job to show who's here, not who comes from outside, not the clients, but to show who's here that it's possible to do more and better. Because when you show... Because the Portuguese population, the Portuguese population is very few, very few changes. So you just need to see that this is possible to do. How cool! And then you start to create interest and more people will do it. That's what Rapalio was talking about, about the Indian weddings, which was the first Indian wedding in... I don't know if I can tell you the steps. No, but the first Indian wedding in Punhalonga, everyone was scared. Like, hey, I don't want this anymore. But then in the end, this is possible, let's do it. And nowadays that's a machine of... You need to go forward. Go forward. Who goes forward has a... This is a funny example, of cyclists, right? The one who goes forward will cut more wind, the one behind will rest more. That's true. So whoever goes forward will always have more headache, but the interesting part of what I see right now in Portugal is that it's not a person who goes forward, it's a group of people, you among yourselves, we have 10, 20, maybe a little more, but we have companies that are clearly developing this land, that will show it to others. And that's the funny part. You need to have someone who is fearless, like you are, and it's done. And it's solved. And then you see it. Because it's done, and in the end it's possible. And I've really enjoyed sharing this with other spaces. For example, after we were together at the Retiro, I don't know if it was a coincidence or not, but a person from Punhalonga sent us an email saying, look, attention to all wedding plans this year, as you know, the usual procedure, you'll all have to read our bio, which is the Banqueting Event Order, to be sure that everything is according to your schedule, and sign it. This is very interesting. Like, you get the information that now is really mandatory. So, there is this desire to have a conversation and that we are no longer seen as bad, or seen as bossy. Like, what does this want? What did I say at the Retiro? Like, if we ask for a certain dress code, what is this alien asking for? Now they already start, ok, let's try, let's hear, you know how to sell our space, how can we improve? This is exactly the struggle I'm talking about, because it's normal, you need to see things happen, because, in advance, if you ask for things that people are not used to, especially photographers, that already have, there is a culture, and here, there are many vices, there is a lot, but, you think, I'm not going to show up, if I'm not going to show up, why does it matter what I've seen? And then, you need someone to say, ok, you're not going to show up, but people are seeing you, and it doesn't mean you have to go, but, there is a line, between what, ok, you're going to work, and I'm specifically talking about the part, I'm going to work, going for smoking is possible, but shoe polish is not the coolest thing to work with, maybe it's not necessary, but also, don't take dirty shoes, and panties, and things, there is a limit, and that part, that sometimes, you will always look super bossy, let's go, we are always bossy, but, when you see in the end, but the question is, I'm sure you're starting to feel that, people, who thought, or, who didn't care, because they were super bossy, and suddenly, now they start to care, and they start to recommend me, why? because you have a marriage there, and you say, the spaces themselves, this was done, how cool, the spaces themselves, 5 or 6 years ago, they thought, how boring, these people, we don't want them, like, risky, nowadays, I often go to places, where I think, this potential is brutal, and recently, I was in a place, last year, we were in a house, a family house, but, it's a wedding, and I was talking, with a friend, and I said, I did the wedding there, and she said, really? and I said, I would love to go there, and I said, don't worry about that, because, who is there, is the owner, it's the owner, really, forget it, there is a culture of, go to the middle, go for a walk, and you say, wow, the house is beautiful, it's not on top of a lake, like in Como, but it's a dream house, old, Portuguese, an incredible thing, with spectacular gardens, but then, you have this culture, of people, who don't know, don't know the potential, of that, literally, don't see the potential, and then, it's sad, I see what I'm going to photograph, and then, it's sad, I imagine that, in a way, and then, less, I can't, and that's it. To finish, I already asked you, how do you see the future, but now, I wanted to ask you, how do you see, Portugal, in the world, in the future, of weddings, or Portugal, in the world of weddings, in the future, as you want. Look, I expect, a destination, with new infrastructures, because, there comes a time, when we are, a little bit, like, we don't know, because, there are few spaces, for what we have, at the moment, in terms of supply, and that's why, we have to have, something more, I don't know, so, I hope that Portugal, has, I don't know if we have space, in terms of land, to have more space, but, anyway, we are so small, but, I would like that, and in terms of, how do I see our country, I see a country, that is, at this moment, finally, being able to, two, three years ago, to win here, a very, very, very strong song, and therefore, I think we will be, still working, to reach, an Italy, so, I hope that, in the next ten years, we continue to make, this good path, to continue to do, beautiful things, and to bring, more incredible customers, and, there it is, always, better, in terms of quality, of delivery, of suppliers, of dedication, everything, and that we are all able, to invest, not to take only for ourselves, but to invest too, because we are part of it, to invest, to win, that's it, that's it. I like it a lot, thank you, and it was a pleasure to be here. Thank you, thank you. Now let's eat. Let's go,