"Amo o que faço e não procuro equilíbrio"

episode: 38 title: "Ep. 38 - "Amo o que faço e não procuro equilíbrio", com Vera Flenova" pub_date: "Mon, 16 Jun 2025 05:00:00 +0000" original_language: english source_audio: "fe6c7983.mp3"

Hello, welcome. I'm Rui and this is the The Wack Podcast. 3, 2, 1, let's move on. Hello Vera. Hello Rui. This is nothing weird, we're talking on the phone and all of a sudden I'm... Look, it's really a great pleasure to have you here. And thank you for making this trip, 4 hours to each side. Thank you for the invitation. To be here talking with Palerma, thank you so much. So, let's start with the first question, which is very easy, which is... Who is Vera? I'm a mother, a woman, a daughter, an artist, a boss. Something like that. And what has brought you the most difficulties? Mother. I think it's the most difficult, especially in my case, because I work a lot, I can't stop, I don't know how to stop. So, yes, for me, being a mother is... It even makes me... How many children do you have? Two. How old? 11 and 9. Look, they're the same age. Yes, it's easier, but... You know that feeling of guilt, that you're never there, that you're losing the moments and everything. I'm lucky, my family, my mother, my father, they live here in Portugal too. That's why I'm safe, I'm 100%. My mother never calls me. When I'm working on a project, she never calls me. I call her, of course, to ask how she's doing. But I'm 100% calm. But the new people, how do you do it? I don't know. Of course, there are a lot of books, a lot of videos, a lot of things to learn. But you can only do it once. You can do it several times, you can't do it twice. With one person, it's only once. You know, I have a very funny theory for that. I think that the books and what you learn today, mostly, I think it's just this, naturally, but mostly it came to spoil, to complicate and to spoil. There have been human beings for some time, and in reality there have always been good people, so you don't need books or anything like that. I really think my definition of parenting is you do the best you know and you hope it goes well. You know, all these roles that I mentioned, I have the same thing I'm thinking about. I think I can do my best every day. And I can't do more. I'm trying, as a mother, as a daughter, as a boss, as an artist, as a florist, I'm trying to do my best every day. And it's my path, I think so. And if you do your best, you don't have to do more. If we all did our best, the world would be much more interesting. I'm trying, I'm trying. I'm sure you are, because if it's your best, it's okay. That's the cool part. But now I'm going to ask you the opposite question, but the answer will be the same, I guess. Which of the roles brought you the most happiness? Because that's obvious. But more enthusiasm and more good things, but the small ones. Of all those roles. My company. I'm crazy about my job. I think it's very visible. At the university, I had a sociology course. I also had a master's degree in sociology. And I always thought that finding something that you really love, that you really like, is a very rare case. For example, there are people who are designers, they have talent and they are lucky. And it's not like that with me. It's the job, it's normal. I come to work every day and that's it. It's what everyone does. I understand what you mean, but I don't think it's like that in your case. No, I'm saying that I used to think like that before. I used to think like that before I met Flores. It was like that. And then I started working with Flores. I thought, I'm also lucky. I also found passion. But let me ask you, did you start with cakes first? Yes. Did you start with cakes for the wedding? Yes. Did you make them at home and then you decided to start making them for the wedding? Or did you start right away? I'll explain it to you. When we moved to Portugal, I was still with my one-year-old daughter, pregnant, and with my work in Russia. I stayed with the company's work. I've been working here for many years, in parallel with Flores. I started thinking, I'm changing my life, I've changed everything and I'm not very happy with what I do. Maybe I have to do something different. I started thinking about what I could do. I have my best friend, he lives here in Portugal too. When he moved, he became the wedding photographer. And we thought, I liked to cook since I was a child. So I thought, I really like to make cakes. I made cakes for myself, for all my friends, always. And I thought, I'm going to make wedding cakes because I already have a photographer friend. Who is he? He's Russian too, Kirill Perbuchin. He doesn't do much photography now, but he started. And I started making cakes. And then you went to Flores because you liked beautiful things. Yes, I thought, cakes are very risky, if they fall on the way, it's very... Now I know, if an orange falls on the way, nothing happens. Do you remember? Or did a door open for you to do that? Yes, I had a girl, I met a girl, also Russian, Victoria. We met, because she was a wedding planner and I made cakes. And she said, I'm starting a flower company, do you want to work with me? Of course I do. I came here two years ago, I don't have anything, of course I do. She taught me a lot, I had a lot of courses, teaching and everything. And then, little by little, I stopped making cakes because there was no time. Tell me something, have you ever imagined yourself with such a big company, as you have now? I honestly don't think my company is very big. Usually when I talk to my friends, I don't have a real business, it's a... Of course it depends with whom you compare, if you are comparing with other areas, a convention or something like that, of course it doesn't seem big, but in the area of weddings, there are still, if you talk about rooms and spaces, and even photographers, there are still those who do a lot of weddings. But in the type of weddings where we meet, it's very rare. Last year you had 99, or something like that. How do you know? I told you a while ago that it was hard to go to lunch first, and then, because I wanted to start talking about all these things, I was very curious, but then I didn't have time for the recording. And we've already talked about a few series. But didn't you get stressed by not reaching 100? I'm a bit of a compulsive observer, if I did 99 and I didn't do the first one, I would be there cheering me up a bit. No, for me it's just a number. It can be 99, it can be 80, it can be 100, it can be 10, the most important... No, 10 I can't, but it depends on the size, it depends on the project, it depends on the budget, of course. I realized a few years ago that I really like big projects. When it's a project, it's a challenge. But out of those 99, do you have a big percentage of big projects? Yes. What percentage would you say? It also depends on what we... Imagine, every year, for example, two years ago I did the biggest project of my career, and this year we'll have a project that's twice as big. So for me, this year was more or less the same as last year. And then I started to think, and it's not because we had more Indian weddings than just three days, with more complex events, with more decoration of the ceiling, that sometimes I feel that I lack time to stop and analyze, because it's always something. Until that low time that... We're saying low, but last year the last wedding was on the 21st of December and our first project was on the 23rd of February this year. So sometimes of course I have decisions to make, I have things to deal with, I have... I'm in a fixed team, I have seven people now, so I have a lot of things to deal with. But that time to analyze and stop and really think about the dimensions of the projects, I have those projects that really mark my career. I know that, for example, Nelson's wedding of the Portuguese national team was a very special wedding for me because I learned a lot, I realized that I can do it. I realized that when I have everything very well planned and I have a team divided into smaller teams everything works. That's why I can't tell you if I had more big or small projects. I also don't know how I say all couples all clients are the same to me. I understand that perspective of the importance they have but in reality the projects are not all the same. When you talk about a project it can be one day and that day can be huge, each of the three days may not be as important as the other one but in the set of the three it's a more complex event. That's why you say it's a bit difficult to manage. Did you say 99 were weddings or events? Events. In total. You already said what brought you to weddings but it was a bit by chance. How was it? What made you stay? I've been doing this for 10 years and I get tired sometimes in the morning in the afternoon I can get really tired but there wasn't a day when I woke up and thought I don't want to do this anymore I'm fed up with weddings and flowers. Not yet. That's why I really like what we do. Even in the projects that are very hard and demanding when I see the final result for me it's everything and I have the team too. The girls work and when they leave for a shoot in the morning they turn to a tent with lights and they say it's so beautiful and spectacular and others will say bad words about the hard work but no, we are not fairytale nothing like that But don't you think that's one of the interesting parts? Things that are easy don't have... Physically I think sometimes it's too hard and what happens a lot of times and I think our strong side is that I never give up and when it seems that we can't save we always stay there until the end and this happens and a lot of times we talk a little bit about service a lot of times I feel that my team is making up for the mistakes of others I'm not saying all of them on the contrary but sometimes for example a transport company is late with some material and we have to set up and who is working at night? It's us or sometimes it's not anyone's fault it's the weather we had a situation last year when the newlyweds really wanted to get married it was a dream and we are here to make the dreams come true and that's why the groom I will remember him for the rest of my life he is so delicate so cool I like his dream to come true we set up two ceremonies and it was 15 hours before the ceremony we set up two and they got married but you had flowers for that I bought and from one day to the next you managed to fix it I already told you there is nothing impossible maybe one way or another but everything can be fixed it's just the will to fix if you send several people to several suppliers and find what you need in a very short time if you inspire your team so that they don't leave and stay working at night because they understand and have the same values as you and that's it was it hard to find people like that? yes it's the most difficult thing it's a conversation that makes me emotional but yes I am making a lot of effort a lot I am dedicating a lot of time a lot of energy, a lot of money a lot of everything to have this team my team is everything for me it's everything I don't like to say we are a family but we are almost we live together almost every day there are people that come and stay there are people that stay for a few days and realize that we are different we can't work together it's life but yes I am doing everything for my team I don't know maybe for people it's never enough but I promise that I do everything possible everyone in the industry knows that we have parties twice a year we not only work but we also have our moments we have an impeccable team I have an impeccable team so you are the 7 with you? no, the 7 with me are the people that stay 7 with you all the time yes, all the time so the summer is much more than that yes, I have people for example florists assistants logistics people it's not the only job for florists it's the only job it's too hard to have another job There are some people who have other types of activities as well, and they are all freelancers, but not 100% as we perceive freelancers, because they work with me. It ends up being a lot of time with you, right? But how many people are there in general? Now more or less than 30 people. It's a challenge to deal with so many people, right? Yes, there are 30 people who come almost every week. Then there are some contacts there and there. I think that our team, the maximum I had was 50, and this year we will have 80 people for a project. But for a project, that is, in that project there will be a lot of people working. A small thing, right? A simple thing and such. Easy. Things are falling here in the studio. In the midst of all this logistics, of all these challenges that you are experiencing, what inspires you the most? Is it still the simplest part of the flowers? Or did another inspiration come up? I think it's challenges. Maybe, you know? It's a little bit my mother's fault. Everyone is now blaming their parents. No, I love my mother, but she used to always tell me, very good, very good, but you can do more. I'm proving that I can do it and it continues. I think it's, I don't know another word, but it's a challenge. It's when you realize that you're already on another level. You've already managed to do more without happy couples, you know? And of course it's the feedback. The feedback from my partners, with whom I work every year. And for me, it's very important, it's very important, these relationships. Sometimes people, I heard people talking about me sometimes, like, they have weddings too, but we have it not because we're friends, it's because of the level of service we provide. And for me, it's very important, it's my face. So even at weddings, when I'm not there, no arrangement from our office comes out without my approval. Never. Nothing is done, it's a little bit of free control, but yes, it's my face, it's the... Maybe the inspiration is that I'm doing something important. It's something that makes people happy. It's your responsibility, right? Did they hire you? Do you feel that responsibility? Yes. Does this mean that you're a professional or not? Yes, without a doubt. But you can't say, find the... Is it good enough? Yes, maybe yes. You have to do it, but there's strength, right? Yes, for example, I don't think it's bad, because... Imagine, yes, I'm proud of the projects I've done, I'm proud of the decorations, of the arrangements, I don't know. But I'm always looking to the side, what if I did it again? What can we change? What can we improve? What can be improved? I think it's important, because sometimes when people ask how I got to where I am now, it's because I never stop. I don't... I don't think... I think... But I think that someone else in my place could say, I'm already fine. I'm in the top 5 of Portugal, and so on. Everything is fine. But not for me. I want... I'm a perfectionist, yes. You're in a race with yourself. Yes, but not on the negative side, you know? No, I'm saying this in a positive way, because I think the only race we have in life is with ourselves. It's completely irrelevant what... I mean, what the other colleagues do can be exciting, can be challenging, can help in many ways. But you're not in a race with them, we're in a race with ourselves. I'm watching the work of the other colleagues, just with the desire to say, that it's cool, that it's good, that it's beautiful. I'm never comparing. I think it's a little stupid to compare, because we're all different, we all have different values, we all have... For example, I don't know, for someone it can be making the biggest arc in the world is very important, it's cool. For me, having a team that is sharing my values and is able to make the impossible possible is enough. I think this, that we trust our partners, that people receive messages from the new ones, or stay with the same partners and the same customers every year, this says something. Yes, you know what's funny? You didn't say that part a while ago. One of the people that I heard speak best about you was Sofia. I like her a lot. Of all the times I talked to her, and as you know, my knowledge of florists is vast, it's huge, but she always told me about you, and even your business model is totally different, but it's exactly that point, that you follow your path, and what I think is funny is that you are able to appreciate what other people are doing, enjoy what you do, sometimes it can inspire you, it can challenge you, but your competition is with you, it's what I can do. I think it should be what I can do better today than what I did yesterday. We are simply in different phases of life, and comparing is just ridiculous. Yes, I totally agree with Sofia, I have a deep friendship with her, I admire her talent, she is very inspiring to me, I even told her when I met her, because in the beginning I even worked with her for her projects, and I thought, when I grow up, I want to be with Sofia. And that's it. For me, it's very important to be honest and transparent with myself, that's why it happened to me many times, it was Sofia and other colleagues, they know, some of them know, someone who is going to hear and doesn't know, for example, look, my structure failed, I need someone urgently, can you help with transportation? They know, and it has happened many times that colleagues know that I will help, but on the other hand, I think that this always brings surprises to people, they were surprised because the market here is not so friendly, people are in this competition and in this race I can't do it but with the others it makes me sad. But do you feel that a lot or do you feel how do I ask you this? Do you feel that this is a common thing in all areas of marriage or do you think you live more this in the perspective between florists? Do you think it's a common thing? I think it's a common thing because also as a supplier I see that everyone has for example wedding planners or other suppliers I don't know how it works in the world of photographers but I didn't hear for example someone doesn't have a camera and the other comes to help maybe it happens, I don't know. In the case of photographers it happens. But that's why I ask you because it's true that the feeling I have at least my perception is that there is always a group or at least there are several groups and it is likely to be so that they really help each other. I have already had situations where I needed to have colleagues who came to replace me in the case of Elsa I already went to replace colleagues because one of them had a broken leg or something like that even with material things happen. I think that the problem is asking for help I think we are all very afraid to ask for help I distrust all the people I've met over the years I can't imagine one of those people asking for help and they say no those people exist I believe they can exist but I think it won't be the majority I think we sometimes are so afraid to ask for help so we don't get the idea that we are weaker or we are smaller we lack humility and we need help can you help me? yes I think there is a part that is 100% this I don't know for example for me asking for help is weakness it's being... but I also believe that there is a lot of fear that someone will steal someone's clients or something like that not from my market I don't know it's hard to say but the community is needed I think people need for example some people can talk about you with others but they don't talk to you if I want to say something to someone I go there and say it and everyone knows this I'm not going to lie here you can ask everyone I work with if I don't like something they understand even in my face I can't hide it but I think it's just life what I can do to change this to offer help to everyone it depends who wants to come in who doesn't but it's funny in relation to the podcast I've had people that I know talked to some of the people I talked to and they went to talk to them but at the end of the year and it's not a question I'm just curious because you're giving this example because I feel that I think it's curious of course it's cool the messages I get I don't need everyone to come here and say whatever but it's funny that some people went to talk to some of the people I talk to and they never told me that the sun wasn't a big deal and that I should do this or that but I think that's a funny part of the community because there are things that are still weird and I think this could be easier every day every day we do our best so if I can help someone today I help for example when I need help I call Daniel from Prometo a Marte I call other people I talk to Sofia I rent Sofia's space it's a fantastic possibility to go here work in the north and have a fantastic space already prepared for a florist and for a team or for example this year long story short our plan was to have our office in the corner of my house but the house was built and we grew up and the space is small so it was used for only one year and then we moved and this year I have a team from the United States from the florists who come here and rent the space and for me if they need help with flowers for me it's good I think that when I go to another country I want someone to help me and so we create the community how many times does this happen here in Portugal? I don't know I would like to answer you but I don't know but don't you think just the fact that you are in this period where you rent the space and you are there just the conversations that arise just that is enriching just the fact that we are talking we are learning something and I think that this isolation that we sometimes have which is not the case it's not what happens with photographers I was already in a phase where we talked a lot and it continues to exist in other areas just the fact that you talk to someone who does the same work as you but that's why almost every year I go abroad for a conference for a workshop something to learn things it seems that there is not much to learn but every time it was not a technique like making a bouquet but some thought some idea it's always inspiring and I think it's very important because if I don't stay in my world nothing changes I personally I want to continue to grow every year not to grow in terms of the number of projects but to grow personally to grow as a person I think we should all at least have that as a goal but it's not easy it's a lot of work but I think this investment is really worth it because I saw several examples when people stop and disappear when they think ok, I'm already I'm already I'm already good enough I'm already at the top I don't know what Aldo Jano said I don't know if he was an actor Aldo Jano said that the hard thing is not to reach the top the hard thing is to stay there I don't know I think it's not about the top or top 5 I think the perspective is when you get there like he said, if you are running with the others when you reach the top whatever the data you use to make that comparison that's irrelevant but when you feel you are at the top if your top is the others think, I'm already at the top there is no way to go if you are thinking about your top and you say ok, I'm really working at the highest level that I ever worked you say ok, it's spectacular but if you know that there is a top that is yours at least you think ok, there are things I haven't done yet that I want to do and I'm saying this with some knowledge because that's what I felt in the last years I went through that a few years ago I spent 10 years trying 7 or 8 years in which I felt ok, I want to make these photos I want to make these images and when I felt I knew how to do it I thought, ok, I know and everything was going well I just realized my problem and what scares me about this is that I just realized the negative part 3, 4, 5 years later there is nothing that you realize when things start to go wrong you don't know why and then I had to do a big analysis mine and also ours as a brand, but mine when did this start to go wrong and then you realize ok, maybe it was him and it's interesting because it's a race against you and I stopped fighting against myself because I knew what I wanted to do and this is dangerous now more than ever but you were talking about investment and I wanted to ask you because the timing is curious we are recording this last week you were in Italy doing the Web Vibes editorial in France and I found out this week we recorded an episode with Daria and Alina and you studied with Alina which is really curious the world is so small and I wanted to ask you what is the role that the editorials have in your creative life basically I think the role is really important for the creative part because I know that there are artists or even wedding planners who can say that this is my vision, I do it like this, the client has to accept it, it looks beautiful like this. For me, it's not exactly this. Of course, I'm always suggesting options to the client, to the couple or to the wedding planner. But for me, the most important thing is that the day is theirs, it's the couple's day. So, in a wedding, it's not always possible to do what you want, how you want to show your brand, how you want to show your floral art. How do you see this? Sometimes it's not just a matter of the client, it's also a matter of timing, because there's the ceremony, there's this, there's that. In the publishing house, you feel more at ease, you can create ideas, you can show more. I think that last year it was very fashionable, all of Instagram had ribbons on the candles, I had several clients asking for this, and I said, no, I'm going to say something more internal. We did it once, it was Luciana's wedding, where we were the guests. Why did I say no to the clients? I said, this is dangerous, because you're going to be at dinner, this is fire, it's not possible. We all did this in the publishing house first, it wasn't a real wedding. Then, for Luciana's wedding, we were the guests, the only table we made was theirs. My husband, at two in the morning, went to put out the candles, because it was so fun, so cool, that everyone forgot about the candles. But what I thought just happened. So I think that in a publishing house, yes, we can be very creative, but it has to be, in my opinion, as I want to show my brand, it has to be real. Maybe a little exaggerated, because to show an idea you need not just one flower, but a thousand flowers. I think what you're saying is very interesting, because in a publishing house you can go to two points. The first one, as we sometimes find in fashion magazines, is not something that is supposed to be commercial. Just being profoundly shocking is something completely out of the ordinary, as designers' collections are sometimes. They are too exaggerated, because it's almost an artistic installation. But what you're saying is also very interesting, and I think I share your idea, although I like both. The interesting thing in a publishing house is what I would like to do, but what I would like to do in a specific place, in a wedding. That is, it has to be exciting, it has to have your creative part, but it has to be commercially viable. Someone who sees that and says, I would like this in my wedding. Basically, that's the way you look at the publishing house. Actually, it's a little bit like Decorel Cresceu, because we, in the publishing houses, we can show that we can, that this exists, that there is a different way of working with flowers, there is a different way of showing ideas, and that we, as a brand, can give that opulence, you know? Like an image full of flowers, because it's not so easy at first to say, OK, I'm Vera, I'm a florist, can you give me the money for 5,000 roses? What are you going to do with this? You know how to create this. No one is going to buy it. And with the publishing house, you can do it. I don't need to show the level of the company, because I have big projects. But for a smaller company, I think it's a very cool way to show, yes, we can, we can do it. And it's not just that, because when we started, each project we did more than it was agreed upon, and we continue like this. We continue until now, you can also check with the clients. We always try our best to deliver to the customers more than they are expecting. That's the best commercial technique there is, undersell overdeliver. It's as simple as that. They may be paying a lot, or even a little, but when you always deliver a little more, there's always that thing, like, I wasn't expecting this. But how does your creative process work for a publishing house? Do you have a line of thought? How does it flow? Yes. First, always between reality, because I can imagine anything. I usually don't do more than one publishing house a year, because I don't want to do a small inspiration publishing house. It's an idea that I'm showing on social media, and what my brand is, is a project full of flowers, big, with a lot of things, with a lot of scenarios, with the decoration of the roofs, like, it's big. That's why the publishing houses that we do, it's usually to show an idea, but it's also big. That's why we're usually planning with the descendants, and we always have a concept first. No, first reality, as I said. Imagine the limitations of space, the limitations of time. So you would start with space, right? Yes, usually, yes. Because I think that the idea, in my case, I usually start with the clients, I start with the space, because I think that a style is perfect for a modern space, and it doesn't work in a palace. Sometimes I see that the clients ask for Pampa de Graça in Quiluz, and I cry, because, again, I'm not one of those people who will say, if the client really insists, it's fine, he'll get what he wants, it's their day. But for me it hurts, because in my head it has nothing to do with it. Just as a reference, I don't know what that flower you just said is, but it's my problem, you know? It's that, how do I explain it? That was very fashionable many years ago. I don't know about you, but it's just because... Ok, but I don't know. Elsa is saying back there, we had that at home. I explained to you a while ago that my knowledge as a florist is absolutely frightening. But I understand. Yes, but after space and some other limitations, for example, if we go to an editorial in France, we have to realize that I can't take my full office and my 100 square meters warehouse to France. It stays here. So we're thinking about what we can do. And then comes the concept. We always have some inspiration, some starting point, and then we return to the idea. In my team I have two girls, Júlia and Daniela, who are my right and left hand, legs and everything. And we usually work as a team, because our work is divided into, let's say, superpowers, and each of us has their own superpower. So, for example, Daniela really likes to find interesting flowers, new ones, new varieties, or something that we normally don't use, or something like that. Júlia has a background in decorating, because in Russia flowers and decoration are two completely different things. We do the brainstorming, we're saving ideas, and then little by little we create a concept. Even, for example, with Wet Wipes, I won't tell you about it, but the concept is completely ours, it's a decoration concept. At first we wanted to do everything red in this editorial, but we couldn't, because there was already a mood board next to them. These are limitations, you know? Yes, I was going to ask you about that, because in the case of Wet Wipes, it's a commercial editorial, so they sell a basic idea, and then there's a participant, in this case it was you, who takes the reins of that mood board, of that initial concept, and from that initial concept, you have total freedom, as long as you're more or less connected to it. The meetings with the rental team, with everything, what I like about them, we've worked together twice, I like that they're open to our ideas, they're valuing our vision, and the final result, both times, is fantastic. I really like the images I received, and I think it shows what I wanted to show. In this case, that initial point was Pearls, and we were inspired by Pearls, and from there they said, OK, Pearls, what are we going to add? And that's it. But in your head, do you have a common process, or do you have these two points? Space, concept, what you want to do, and then from there... Then I start making presentations, with some inspirations, of course you'll never find what you want to show, that's why we make sketches, some mood boards... Because usually, in your publishing houses, they start with you, or you usually do, with Daniela, with Mente Cativo, and that group, you're all together, I don't know where it started, but from the way you're talking, a good part of where you come in starts with your ideas. From the heart, yes. But did you decide to invite a group to work with you, or does it happen the other way around? No, never. Usually it's either one of the two, or in this case, I wanted to go to France, and I saw in the materials of Ed Vipes, this palace, I went crazy, and I decided I had to go there. But... I also took the opportunity, I went with the whole family, we went to Disney, it was very cool. It's a balance, you know? Sometimes it happens. But in most cases, the wedding planner comes and says, let's do it, I'm thinking about this, what do you think? And sometimes I say yes, let's do this, for example, a week later, one of my partners called me, I said, it's not worth it, we're not going to lose money, time, with this, I don't think it's worth it, for this, for that, she said, you're right, yes. And that's it, it has no effect. But yes, I'm trying to keep it in the low season, I don't accept it during the summer. That is, between December and January, right? It's a great time to do things with a lot of flowers, right? Yes, and with rain. Exactly, rain, with beautiful skies. But I don't know, at least the last one you did, and with Bad Vibes, they have this care, and they do it in lower seasons. But last year, it was more in the middle of summer, wasn't it? No, it was April, it was the same thing. As you know, sometimes, everything is ready, but if you want it to be in a blog, nobody is publishing a lot, so everyone gets the idea that it was much more. No, it was in the idea, even because the sun you had doesn't look like April, right? Yes. I would like to go back a little bit to the part of the company, which was a little bit what we talked about a while ago, which is the balance, as you were talking about, the balance of the company, of the personal and professional life. Do you want to see me cry? No, I'm not going to ask you what your eyes are saying, I'm not going to do that. But do you feel that there is a balance along the way? Do you feel that you are in that balance? How do you feel right now living that part? I have zero balance. No, but it's true. Yes, it's better than it used to be. I'm growing up in this too, but my life is work. For people who think that everything is easy, I have a fantastic life on Instagram with only vacations, with luxury hotels. No, no. Until now, in France, when we did this little trip, I said, okay, four days was the editorial part, and even my son was that boy with the spears. I think it's good, because they didn't stay with their grandparents, but they stayed with us and saw a little bit of the other side of my life. So they went with you, they were there. Yes, they helped, they brought oranges, and then they stayed with guests at the editorial. Do you have images? Yes, I haven't published it yet, but I have one. Yes, the main one. I'll show it to you later. But then, we spent six days with our family and friends. I worked every day, on the trip, I received calls every day, messages, questions. It seems like six days, a lot, but there are, I don't know, I've heard from other people that this year everything is on time, and I have really big projects for May, just confirming now. It's not easy, because there are tasks that if I don't order flowers, there are no flowers. So I'm very bad with balance. Yes. But do you want to change a lot? Because in the perspective that I have, you seem to live more or less calm with that imbalance. Yes, I hope my husband will hear this podcast. No, but I'm kidding. I have, I believe that if a person is doing something, it means that he likes it. And I'm completely honest with myself, with my family, with my friends. I love what I'm doing. I'm always looking for things that I can give to other people to treat, of course. And if it's necessary, I'll... I just realized that it's not 7 people, it's 8 people, because we still have a girl from Instagram, social media. And she also works all the time. She has other projects too, but it's almost... I feel like she's in my family, because we communicate all day long with holidays and weekends. So I think I'm doing what I love. And I think it's giving possibilities to my family. My children can have what they need. And my husband too. And since we work together... Is he also part of the company? Yes, in fact, the company is his. 51% It's that issue you were talking about a while ago, the bureaucratic facilities. Yes, but we're kidding. When the time comes, the company is mine. Yes, he works with me too. He used to say if we don't work together, we'll get a divorce, because I'll never see you again. And now, a year and a half later, we have a divorce, and it gets even more complicated. Do you think your children are a boy and a girl? And do you think any of them will enter the area of marriage? I have no idea. I really have no idea. Seriously, I want them to be free to choose their own path. I ask this because, in the case of my daughter, and João too, but Beatriz is older, when she was 9 years old, she said she wanted to come to our wedding. We said, ok, when you're 10, you can come with us. We thought she would forget. But no, she was 9 and said, but now she's going to be 12, and I'm starting to feel that she's a little bug. And she doesn't really take pictures. She's just becoming a teenager. She's 5 years old. But I think she's, little by little, finding it funny the idea of doing something similar to what we do. In your case, do you feel that the oldest is also a girl? The oldest is a girl, yes. Do you think she's taken by the flowers? I can't really say. She's still a little bit in the middle of everything. And my son, he's very into mathematics and things like that. So, I don't know. We'll see. I thought, imagine, I'm 39, at 50, I'll transform. It has to be. I feel the same way about Daniela. You don't look like a person who transforms at 50. You don't look like a person who has... Let's see. Because, this is going to appear in different weeks, but the conversation happens in two different days. You look like a person who really enjoys what you do. And you don't look like a person who's been quiet for a long time. No, never. Because I think the interesting thing about this is that you can either not work or you can simply choose what you work for. And you work just because you want to and not because you need to work to make money. I think that's my dream, to say, either today or this year I don't want to work. But this year I want to. Either today or tomorrow. I think when you get to a point where you say I work when I want to to do what I really want, I think that's a victory. I think in your case it's much easier than in ours. Because, you can take pictures or not. Yes, but I don't even speak specifically about photography. I don't know if I'm going to be a photographer all my life because I like a lot of things. I'm saying it from this perspective, if you don't make flowers, you have to be doing something else. You sell your flower company for 35 million euros. I can travel the world, I don't care. But don't you think you need to get bored in a short time? Maybe. You know how it happens, for example, I decided, I have a day off. I don't do anything. I stay at home. At 11 in the morning, so, what are we going to do? Maybe we go to a place. I can't stay still. Maybe I have to talk to my psychologist about this. Because, I don't know, it seems to me that this movement is life, isn't it? But that's why I think, I don't think it's a defect at all. I think that if you don't know what's going to happen at 1.50am, you can find a point and say, I'm tired of working to make money, now I'm going to work just because I feel like it. I think that's a great... But now, it's a question that I have for the end. But still in relation to that, I would like to ask this part. You are an extremely creative person and you like a lot of the work you do. You started with cakes and you went to flowers because you actually like beautiful things. But it also seems to me that you like the management part, don't you? Yes, I remember when we talked about super power, I think logistics, organization, this is my super power. Is it where you really feel that it comes naturally? Yes, I know. I don't know how. When we have several projects per day and it seems impossible, I spent like 15 minutes thinking, this guy comes from there and then comes back, this guy comes here, and it gets solved. I know how to make decisions very quickly and effective. That's why I really like this period now, when I was already alone because my partner moved to Australia and it was impossible to continue. It's hard to find a way. I really like this period now when I know that the decision is mine. Then, if it went well or not, it's also my fault or responsibility. Yes, more or less. Ok. Now, to finish, I would like to ask you what is success for you? Oh, such a difficult question. You know what? I don't know. That part we talked about becoming a perfectionist and everything, but many people were telling me that I have so much talent, that I'm so successful. I was lucky. No, it's not luck, it's a lot of work. I agree, it's a lot of work. But what is success? I think that the real success for me is to be in peace with you, to be happy with your place in this world, in the world of marriage or in the world in general, and to be happy with what you managed to do. Because I don't think it's very... I think this theme during the whole conversation was that I would run with you, as you said, not with the others. Normally, I think people measure success by comparing themselves to others. For me, success is to have my team, to have people who have value for me, without end. For me, success is to have partners who believe in me, to have clients who are happy and then can send me a message saying that their dream came true. I recently received a message this year saying can you please send me pictures of you and your team because I want to stay with them forever. I can't thank you enough. I want to stay with memories of your team. And it's not just one person behind the flowers. Normally, no one even knows. It's to stay with clients who value you. I think that's it. And are you in that place? It's a very difficult question for me because I'm sure I'm proud of where I am. I'm a very happy person with what I do. I'm very, very happy with what my company, my brand this year is better than the previous year, the previous year is better than the previous year. This makes me immensely happy. But I never was... Maybe it's not my priority to be successful. Maybe that's it. Maybe it's just the word that triggers me. Maybe. But yes, I think it's another topic with the psychologist. I should be really proud of where I am. Thank you, Vera. Thank you. I really enjoyed having you here. Likewise.