"We're not Luxury, we're High Touch Planners"

episode: 39 title: "Ep. 39 - "We're not Luxury, we're High Touch Planners", with Kay Northrup" pub_date: "Mon, 23 Jun 2025 05:00:00 +0000" original_language: english source_audio: "cd1b619f.mp3"

Hello, welcome. I'm Rui and this is the WEG Podcast. We're asking Wednesday, so it would be weird for you at 10 or 11 a.m. I I assume but I have my virgin I Have my virgin gin and tonics, which which just means it's just tonic with some orange and lemon zest But I wanted to have you this year. I Really hope someday we can share a glass of rosé and that would be awesome So in Portugal together, yeah It'll be awesome, so Let's start and I have a lot of questions that I'm very interested in and all of your content But let's start from the beginning. I believe the first wedding you planned you planned was yours your beautiful wedding at Greece Was it it was but it was actually one of them, but I actually was in events before that I did more Nonprofits and corporate things before that, but I was in the industry before My own wedding, but that was the first destination wedding, but I never planned Yeah, but you were doing weddings at that time or just corporate events. And yeah. Yeah, I was it was some weddings It was mostly nonprofits and corporate stuff But also I started about 12 years ago as a cater waiter doing Waitressing at weddings, so I was at weddings like every weekend since then so I've seen every side of the industry really I worked for a venue I worked for that catering company and went into their sales department after that. I've worked for wedding planners I've worked for event planners. So yeah, it's it's been a little bit of everything Yeah, but what what was the first and how what what brought you there? What brought you to the the wedding industry chance? So I Actually Wanted to be a journalist and that's what I went to school for a very expensive school for a degree that I did not use I think that's Really usually in the wedding Yeah, because you don't need a degree you just need a lot of street smarts and and and hard work You know to make it in this industry But I yeah Realize about halfway through college that I didn't want to be a journalist and I was kind of thinking back on You know those jobs that I had when I was younger and and kind of through college and through high school like, okay Well, what brought me joy? What did I like, you know to do and being a cater waiter gave me so much energy You know and and serving people food at weddings and just being in those environments was so energizing for me I would leave there those weddings and drive home at 1 2 o'clock in the morning High on life with like the windows down and the music high on the radio and I'm like, this is living, you know So I changed my major to marketing and switched gears and I was like, alright I'm gonna intern for every wedding planner I can I ended up getting a really good internship for a planner who you know Would you like celebrity weddings million-dollar stuff lots of you know, it's good to be exposed But that's not what I know but yeah, that that's kind of how it happened was just Yeah, but that that was when it's what year that was about Maybe a decade ago or so. So you were basically a child because you don't look any any more than 25 I don't know how old are you but Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I I started my business five years ago. So I was 25 when I started my business So, yeah Honestly, it's like that blissful naive a tag of being so young and just take you know, having no responsibilities So you can take those types of risks and so sometimes I asked that question because I felt it completely the same The the first weddings I did 2010 I've been shooting photography shooting weddings for 15 years and the first ones I Will I think we were completely naive because I think today I think I'm more I have More sense of the responsibility and sometimes I get a bit more afraid than then which is really awesome, but weird So you start by catering then you internship for the The planner and then what did you want to to go for the destination from the start? Yeah, but it was a pipe dream like who am I to plan destination weddings? I didn't think that was gonna happen I if you had said, okay think bigger My thinking bigger, you know eight ten years ago would be one day. I'll have my own company I'll do destination weddings But that's probably not gonna happen for 30 years because no one's gonna hire me to do that and it happened And so that is really freaking cool. I guess like I really didn't think that that was gonna happen So I kind of played safe and I played small when I started my business. I just did local weddings You know, I'm from New England. So around Newport, Rhode Island is one of the biggest destination markets in the world And so it wasn't destination for me But people are coming from New York and LA and all that to get married there and that there's a lot of money in that Market, so I got to be around all of that still in my own kind of way from my own backyard and my own safe bubble and I know these vendors have Relationships with the people and the venues that are here because of all those years doing catering and and things like that So I just played it super safe But really the transition happened, you know, I was I was working That really big company that I mentioned before doing like million-dollar stuff in Boston and I just found them to be Unrelatable events because you can't relate to a client who's spending a hundred thousand dollars on flowers At least I could you know and so that's what kind of made me want to transition into My own business and having my own clients that I could relate to that or were more of my peers Rather than these like big Kind of very daunting families with a lot of money that you feel like you have to kind of kiss their feet a little bit So that's how that shift. Yeah, but you did you didn't you never wanted to Go to that market never again. No, I don't I didn't I I Drank the Kool-Aid for a while. It's just not it's not where I like to be I I always like to say with my company now, we are not luxury wedding planners We are high-touch wedding planners and to me there's a difference Luxury puts you in this category I will do anything for anyone at any cost and we just we don't you know There is a line and also I want to work with real people with real budgets who have real Financial goals beyond their wedding and most of my clients are spending their own money on their wedding So they're self-made or they're just really hard workers and most of our Millennials at least right now who have really? big careers lots of doctors and lawyers and things like that and They want a high-touch service, but they also aren't looking to spend thirty thousand dollars on flowers necessarily And so there's a line and they're like I want to buy a house and I want to have a beautiful wedding Help me get there for like half as much as what a luxury wedding costs I don't know if you know this episode of friends But in English in Portuguese doesn't work because we have the same word for wedding and marriage. It's the same But in English it works really well. And there's a an episode where when Monica and Chandler were going to get married and Monica has this Binding with every everything and just and Chandler's says something like I don't want to spend all that in our magic marriage You know in our wedding because I want a marriage also And I think that's the I think is more or less what you're saying, right the people Wedding is supposed to be special and interesting, but there's the marriage of exactly it goes deeper than just the superficiality of the day and it's funny to say that because I am a wedding planner and what I do isn't superficial but when there are When there's a higher focus on the things rather than the Experiences, that's when it can tip to be a bit of an unhealthy Balance. I'm the first to say that wedding planning brings out the worst in people I do believe that it brought out the worst in me for my own wedding And so I think it's really important to help couples. Remember. Why are you doing this? Let's like zoom out. You're getting married We're celebrating your marriage, you know, and that is the wedding And so I think it's just it's bigger than that And when you get lost in me the world of spending a million dollars Kind of lose sight of the meaning a little bit. I Think it's important for a couple to really consider Okay, I'm about to spend a good amount of my hard-earned money on this photographer or this venue or this You know floral installation. Is that worth it to us? Does it mean something to us and If we'd spend that money there, what are we sacrificing five years from now, I love those conversations I think it just makes it feel more intentional. Yeah, and I agree completely but don't you think we are? Because being in Europe in Portugal especially we have US couples us is the biggest wedding market in the world. I believe by far and It's coming. It's it always has been a lot in Europe but I think in the last three or four or five years some something like that it really exploded and I'm leaving it and I'm Sometimes I think or I feel that we're maybe going a little bit overboard and I don't know if it's the couples who have a lot of money and want to do all this crazy stuff or if our us as Vendors from that. We just want all the big stuff because it's cool, but it's also a lot of money to to be earned What you think about that? I think it's a little bit of both I think that as vendors we want to do something different every time I I find that it's very uninspiring to do the same wedding copy and paste over and over it That's why I don't do weddings here anymore if they all look the same as the same venue with the same colors and the same floors because you're working with the same people and So that's why it's really fun to to do something different to mix it up Whether you're working with different people working in different places or predominantly in your case with the same market in the same places You're just doing different things and always trying to like one-up yourself year over year And then the couples have have their own kind of social pressure, you know, they see their friends getting married they see what people are are doing and spending and whether you Consciously understand that you actually care or not You do because you want your wedding to be one of the best ones that anyone has been to no one wants a bad wedding you know, so I think that it comes from both the side of the venue the vendors and the couple and At the end of the day Sometimes the train can get off the track like it can just run away But also I love that the couples from the States are bringing their money and injecting them into Your market everywhere else in Europe I love it because I think it's it's so exciting and it used to be at least in like a couple years ago It used to be that having a wedding in Portugal or having a wedding in Italy was the one-upping It was the cool thing. But now if they're going in popularity and everyone's doing it now, it's like, okay I have to have a wedding in Portugal I have to have this massive floral installation over the dance floor and this lighting installation Because they have other people they know who have been getting married there. Yeah, that's that's a few years ago. I always had American couples from almost from the beginning but this past few years and I didn't Thought or felt that it worked like word-of-mouth But it's kind of the planners friends that I have are all saying that it does because you can have two Two friends from New York that both come get married in Portugal That was just weird for me. But it's kind of I have a couple of questions later but I think that the these few countries Portugal Spain Italy France and some Greece and I think we are really in fashion in vogue right now So everyone's to come and it's amazing for us, obviously But I kind of feel the stress. I have this this wedding I'm preparing I have in a few weeks with an American couple and it takes almost every box as you said They are not old obviously, but if they're not they're a bit older than the typical Age for wedding. They're the last of their friends. They have Quite some pressure from their family to get married. They decided to come to Portugal Portugal There are 200 people and I think they are feeling really anxious about everything just being Just Extraordinary and it's awesome. But I think there are at least at this time. I don't think they are Enjoying it and that's kind of sad. Yeah, and that's sad It's sad. Yeah, I always say that wedding planning should be if it should feel like a rite of passage it shouldn't be this thing that you have to suffer through and Unfortunately, I think largely in America and and the hustle culture that we have there and if it everyone's just like oh, yeah It's gonna suck just just know that the wedding planning is gonna suck and and you're doing it all for the day I don't believe that that is true I think you can enjoy this process and the pressures that you put on yourself other people's Expectations, especially it sounds like for that specific couples Own unique situation like being the last of their friends to get married it probably comes with a lot of pressure and then moving 200 people from the States to Portugal is So much pressure because you want to make it feel like it was worth it that so many couples they say that okay I want to just make sure this is worth it. I want to pick a place that was worth it to go I want to make sure when they get there, they're not disappointed because they're spending all this money to get there So yeah, there's a lot of pressure and it makes people sometimes. Yeah, and just yesterday I heard the video of yours when you said and I think it was Nine or ten things you don't people don't say don't tell you and I think it was that video and you said Don't don't schedule everything every time Yes, let some time free for people just to hang out and experience because and you said Going the ocean through the ocean is it's a it's worth it Exactly all of our friends your family and just exactly have a great time for a few days. You don't need to do much more Yeah, just being being in the company. You don't need to be in each other's company under a $50,000 floral installation Yeah, it's exactly that and people feel guilty the other there's all that pressure we talked about but also there's that feeling of guilt I was like, oh my god I am making this so hard for my family to come to my wedding But if you can release the guilt you can pop that balloon and let it all fizzle out Just by saying if you can make it you can make it and if you can't you can I'm not gonna hold that against you Now it's not your responsibility. It's theirs. Yeah And I think it should be because it's normal once you choose to just go outside You have to realize it outside. I don't know not outside abroad. You have to realize that Some people might not go and you have to be in peace with that and and that's okay It's supposed to be a great experience for everyone Yeah, I have a this is really interesting for me because I've never talked with an American planner And it's always interesting but first for two main reasons because I wanted the first one I wanted to ask you What do you think is the main reason that Americans choose to get married in Europe abroad mainly but Specifically in in Europe. What do you think is the main reason? I think that First and foremost it comes down to them loving to travel most of my clients are just good travel loving people and So there's a passion for it and then they want to share that with their family and friends So it's a lot of times and maybe they have vacation in Portugal and they you know had fantastic wine at this Vineyard or if they had a amazing meal overlooking the water and they're like I want to bring everyone back here So they can feel the way I feel right now. They want to bottle it and give that experience. We're also in a very Experience rich age where it's not necessarily about like who has the nicest car It's like who took the nicest trip last year. So there's that too And also kind of like we were talking about before like my my own Motivations for being a destination wedding planner and also having my own destination wedding in Greece. How do I get out of here? And so expensive here too and so there's that Which is kind of my niche is Helping people do it on a budget because you live in New York you live in LA or any other metropolitan area You're gonna spend 90,000 US dollars to walk in the door and breathe the air of a venue for six hours and then you got to spend everything Else on top of that. So they're seeing this incredible shift in value for dollar Oh, you're saying I could spend 20,000 less than that and have three days in a place That's five times more beautiful abroad. And I'm like, yeah Yeah, you can and of course you can spend more than that if you have higher expectations But I think that that's the draw is they just love to travel these places are better in general and they can get so much More value for their dollar which for my clients is huge because they're paying for it themselves They don't really have a parent that's bankrolling this or like family money that's going into this So they want to make sure they're getting the best money for every dollar Yeah, I kind of but the weird thing is and I I see you talking to those couples Budget conscious couples and and I think it's unbelievably awesome what you do with Really putting the math and giving them a number. I think that is really amazing because sometimes we think we even to us Portuguese you think okay. I'm going to get married in Italy and it's a it's a bigger economy. It's a bigger country It's like more expensive and you just think oh I have to spend a lot And then I steal things and I say well, it's not cheap, but it's completely doable So it's it's amazing, but but even when you talk about those million-dollar weddings, they're still happening In Italy and France and some of them in Portugal in Portugal So I think it's really interesting. But as you were saying, I think even if you want or or else What you are saying is to have a million-dollar Wedding in US is just a normal wedding in some places. Yeah Truly and yeah, and we have clients that want to go there not a million dollars. I won't go there but 300,000 let's say we've spent that before and I think at that point it's kind of like just because you can you know, you have the whole world is your playground So we have 300,000 we can either spend it in New York or we can spend it in Lake Como You know, why not? Because that's gonna look very different and either for your 300,000 You're still getting a lot more in Europe than you would if you were to spend that in the States So there's value and even the people who are spending, you know Buckets and buckets more of money and maybe not as cost-conscious The perceived value is still higher which is important too and it's just fun. It's like why not? You know, let's do something different and and they probably like to travel too So it's like bring your family kind of to your to your passion and show them a good time Actually to be honest, I I really I have come to prefer Destinations that mostly happen in Portugal I love specifically American couples and and there's two reasons the first one it's a lot easier for me to be doing a great job charge more because To what you are expecting. It's always less But it's always the the vibe you have when you really have 200 people or even less it doesn't matter But they're all in vacation when you have a wedding of Portuguese a couple There are some guests are have work the day before are working on next couple of days So you have a really nice vibe when you have a destination because everyone is vacation. Everyone is cool. So it's really awesome Yeah, that's a great point and I think I take that for granted because like that's my normal But when you compare that to the normal just weekend in Portugal and you're just you know Driving down the road to get married. It is different. It is different. We have some cases not normally not usually but some cases you are getting married on Saturday and Some guests are working on the Saturday morning for some reason in this it's it's it is what it is, but It changes the vibe. It changes your energy Then just being completely Far away. It's a it's amazing The other very interesting thing about you as far as I'm aware and I wanted to I don't know if you ever thought about it but I wanted to do to ask you this because you are on the On the other side of the usual what I mean is Usually you have planners from the place that couple are going to and That is cool because the planner understands more of the place then they understand the couple You are on the other side. You understand much more the couple and then you possibly can About the places have you ever thought about this? How do you navigate this? All the time all the time because one of the objections I'll get from an American couple is like Do you know what you're talking about? But I get it, you know like you don't speak Portuguese you don't live in Portugal So, how could you possibly know it? well, I I did you know, lots of trial and error and things like that to get to where I am now, but What you're kind of calling out is if if they're over here You know the couples in the States and the weddings happening over here in Europe and there's this massive sea between them What's also between them are what I call the four barriers of destination wedding planning and I've coined these just based on my experience It's the cultural barrier the language barrier the currency barrier and the time zone barrier So now between that couple and their wedding there's a big time zone difference Everything's given to them in euros not the US dollar Your vendors are just different culturally and sometimes they're compealing which barrier that affects your planning process Which affects your expectation communication all of that stuff. And so there are Obviously going to be varying degrees of those four barriers depending on where within Europe or where within each country you're working with But the question for the couple is do you want your wedding planner? To share those four aspects with you or have those four aspects divide you and There are pros and cons to each because of course I can have the same culture be in the same time zone Translate everything into the US dollar Help protect you against the exchange rate So we do a lot of that with our clients help them figure out international wire transfers because culturally we're on the same team But then they got to pay me to go over there and so it's more expensive and also just The market in the US is more expensive anyway, so they might be spending a premium for that And I don't pretend to be a cheap vendor. I am a premium vendor So there's that and then you know on the other side, it's like, okay There's pros because that person lives there and his boots on the ground there full-time rather than sporadically and they already live there So they don't have to fly there so it's cheaper and the markets cheaper So inherently their price is going to be cheaper But now it might be a different planning experience And so what I'm selling to American couples is an American wedding planning experience And your wedding is in Europe and for a lot of couples that's priceless They just want to know that it's being taken care of by someone who fully understands their vision who can you know? Work on the same time zone as them. So they're not having meetings at like 5 o'clock in the morning so all of that stuff is is important to my couples and then there's certainly gonna be couples in the states that don't prioritize that and They should hire a local planner and local to their destination. So it's just depends on the yeah I think you said it all even you you don't eat. There's not a right answer There's a right right answer for some people because like I could I When you talk about the culture mainly the cultural and the time zones the other are completely True also, but I think culturally we can be quite different in some things In sometimes in the costs there's also things that or Too normal to us That we don't think that they are so different for you and that might slip And there are things are just weird from country to country which we also experienced that here we went to Italy this this the beginning of the year and driving in Italy specifically in in Napoli is just an experience of Completely insane, but then in Rome we spent two days in the image It's more or less normal like Lisbon or Porto or something like that. So even to us. Well, you can relate to you the states we have you have 50 completely different states for so and that's interesting, but I think culturally sometimes things are interesting Do you have any any cool story about Any experience that you have about that? I mean the biggest the biggest thing when I bring Americans over there is the bar packages. Oh my god They hate European bar packages. I hate them too, but in the States we're all about unlimited alcohol and the price is pretty accessible and now in the States because Having a cash bar at a wedding now in this generation is becoming a bit of a faux pas I am all for you doing whatever you want to do So if you want to do a cash bar because you don't prioritize alcohol do that but it's more popular to want to cover that and so when you go abroad and They're like a two-hour bar package and only beer and wine during dinner and only in like a specific Aperitivo during cocktail hour. You're like what? No, I want them to have tequila vodka rum whiskey scotch the Entire time like for a full six to eight hours So that's probably one of the biggest ones where I have to explain to couples like we can do that but it's gonna be extremely expensive and Do you want to try and shove that square peg in the round hole? Or do you want to lean in and and those are the conversations that we're having of like this might not be The hill to die on here. You might want to just lean in Culturally because you're gonna save money and God forbid you have a cultural experience I'm drinking wine during dinner and and then after dinner the full bar opens And so that's one of the bigger ones that that we have to navigate around but there is one that is really interesting to me because As far as I know Drinking wine at lunch is not so typical in America, right? you usually have a rush lunch or something like that in Europe in Portugal Italy France and This part some some really big cities probably not but around the the country is really usual We just sit down. We have a lunch for one hour, and I don't really love it But most people drink wine So it's really weird to me to hear that the alcohol is a as a limitation in Europe That's it's weird. It's so funny Yeah, like and I we should bring wine hour during lunch to the States I'm gonna start that petition because if I could have her say at 12, I would do it But yeah, it's it's I think probably the mentality of work hard play hard It's very American hustle culture where it's like I'm gonna work my butt off until 5 p.m And I'm gonna let loose at 5 p.m And I think it's pretty similar to how they expect to let loose it is your wedding is the ultimate I am letting loose and I want all my guests to let loose and it's kind of like that all-inclusive resort vacation that they want to give their guests or the Feeling of being at an all-inclusive resort situation. They don't want their guests to ever be told no to anything and No, the hard alcohol doesn't get served until after dinner is being told no and that's what they want to avoid So it's so interesting. Yeah, it is. Do you do you see any more of these? Differences in services from the US to Europe. I mean if you're looking at wedding planners I actually I've interviewed a lot of couples who used local wedding planners Versus a wedding planner from the States and brought them over and I did about 35 interviews with couples a few years ago in Preparation for one of my new offerings that I have now to really understand like the pros and cons and the cultural Differences that they experienced and I think one of the other main cultural divides is the expectations on Timelines like planning timelines like when things should get done by in the States a lot of times especially with type-a personalities they are so anxious to get everything booked as fast as possible and Some of the feedback that I got in those You know research interviews was their local planner was a little bit more relaxed about it And so they would be like we're fine. We don't have to do that right now And I believe that that is true because they know right but also it's like meeting the American where they're at with their Anxiety to be like I hear you. This is making you very stressed We're gonna do it sooner because we're all gonna feel better if it's done sooner And so that's just one of the bigger Divides and and it's different for every country that we've worked in because the Italians will wait and I don't want to generalize This is just my experience right but the Italian vendors that we have worked with mostly well we'll cut it much closer to the time of the wedding then Portuguese vendors or Greek vendors or French vendors for example Like there there's different Nuances in what that actually looks like country to country because to your point Europe is not just one big culture It's all different slices of the pie. We having a Really big boom of planners in Portugal, I think it's not just in Portugal, but I have more experience here obviously but the reality is the US planners the US Planners industry or market or whatever you want to call it have probably 30 plus years so the thing we feel is you have You have a lot of road behind you And I think now we can find some really great planners here but we still find some really unexperienced and to your point the Understanding some of the anxiety that a couple that just doesn't know Anything about this place. I think you have to understand that and I think only experience goes there But do you feel a really different? Experience on the planners that you interviewed the European and the US ones Their experience, yeah to your point before though, I think there's also inexperienced planners in the States, too It's kind of what we were talking about. You don't need a college degree to do this You don't need like a there's no general board certification that you need to do this at least in the States and so anybody could start day one and call themselves a wedding planner and so I think that it's just a kind of a Function of the industry that we're in really that we all are kind of gig workers and we're bootstrapping this and we're working hard And we're just making a name and a brand for ourselves and that takes time But yeah You also have to have the hard work and everything but the emotional intelligence To deal with people getting married because like I said before Weddings bring out the worst in people and you can't take it personally like they will feel like they're pulling their hair out with stress or anxiety because they're putting a lot of pressure on this one day and You kind of have to be a little bit like a therapist, you know at the same time as being a planner So yeah, the more experience that you have in any profession Working interpersonally with very strong emotions will definitely help Yeah Completely and I'm as a photographer. I'm really thankful for planners because now I'm not the Psychiatrist. Yeah I'm not there their best friend now. I have meeting today with the planner for over the couple and she was talking about all the things that they are going through and the anxiety and I was just thank you I Don't have to go For planners photographies and and venues, but usually photographers were kind of the first. Yes You are very exposed to the emotions of the couple which is amazing, but it can backfire sometimes, but I Wouldn't have it anyway, it's really amazing. So Yeah, and honestly I wouldn't well I'm sorry for for 15 years and now I started a podcast about wedding artists community. So I kind of like this Yeah, so I Want to just jump back a little bit to your work and then talk a bit about Portugal specifically, but first What do you say what would you say it's your most distinctive characteristic of your work What you define Yourself and what you think you have different before we were destination wedding planners We were just the untraditional wedding planner in New England And so that was our first kind of niche and identifying factor was like we do weird stuff You know, we'll do anything you want You know, like if if you're asking for something and it doesn't make any sense We can explain to you the pros and cons of it But if you're like, no, I want to do it then we'll do it and that kind of has translated Into these like not low budget but lower budget weddings destination weddings because we're like, okay You don't give a crap about flowers Let's not have any you know, and there are other ways that people decide to be untraditional It's very subjective couple to couple, but that was always one of our first identifying brand niches and Now it's kind of evolved into We work with untraditional travel loving couples who want to plan intimate multi-day weddings in Europe on a budget So it grew a little bit from there, but that's really like our our tag our elevator pitch and niche now but yeah, I think it's just the willingness to take a traditional wedding budget and throw it in the trash and Break it apart and start fresh based on their priorities not Well, this is just what things cost in the industry. It's like well hang why why we're just constantly saying why? Why do you have to pay that? Why should you do that? Why do you feel pressured to do that? You don't have to and so we also say you should celebrate your marriage your way And so that's that's really at the core of I think why we do things differently and it's also at the core of why? I'm very unafraid to talk about pricing and costs and I know that people might not like it Especially people whose costs I'm revealing but I think couples need to know this information Because that gives them power. And so the other thing is like I think when you're a wedding planner, you can either choose to be on the side of the couple or on the side of the wedding industry and And I'm on the side of the couple, you know, like I will fight for you to get what you want I have great relationships with vendors, of course, and I want to stimulate Their economies and give them all of the couple's money and at the same time I don't want my Couples to get taken advantage of so that's the other kind of underlying aspect of what we do. Yeah, and I think it's awesome Because because even to us as I said earlier it was amazing to see how you break down things and and one thing I always agree is The wedding should reflect you and what you want. And if you want half a million dollars in flowers Okay, if you have the money just go for it. But if you don't want flowers, well, why should you? But yeah, but this is an industry that Changes really slowly and things are done in a certain way for decades and you don't really know why And sometimes it's weird for couples to us that are a decade or a decade and a half we kind of get used to it, but to couple just just Fall from the parachute and say why what the hell is this? It might seem really weird and it should because it is with weird, right? Right. So let's talk a bit specifically about Portugal. I don't know how How extensive is your knowledge about Portugal? Have you been here a lot of times maybe one or two? Yeah The Douro Valley is my place like I would live there if I could Really close in the terms I live really close close It's close. It's kind of an hour. Okay Okay, great We did we did a wedding in a marsh a couple years ago at Posada de Marsh and they they had a little day trip To Gimaraj. So it's so beautiful there. But yeah, we have done a wedding in the north We're currently doing a wedding in the south. We have two sides of our business So we have the full service side, which is like we fly over there and then we have a partial side Which is a little bit more like a consulting service So we're not flying over there with the couples But we have a few couples that are planning Portugal weddings right now both in the north and the south In in that side of things that are headed over there next month the the follow-up question that the really interesting one is what your things are what you think is is our our Strength and what are the things we should really up our game and please be honest Nobody should you you should as long as As long as it's your honest opinion you should because some we have I love our culture But we have really difficult time with change and things are done in a certain way Just because they're always been like this and I hate that. Yeah So, please give our completely unfiltered opinion and you can curse But let me start with like the overarching overwhelmingly positive Viewpoint that I have on Portugal First of all, the vendors are the nicest vendors in all of Europe that we've worked with the nicest people They are so welcoming to us my American team. We don't get that a lot Especially in France. Oh my god. They're like you're an American planner Go go away and a little bit in Italy I would say Portugal and Greece have been the most warm welcoming like oh my god, come on over We've got you like let me show you the best people to work with in this market it's been really easy to learn the Portuguese market because of just the networking and like the Welcoming vibe that everyone that we worked with there So much so that when we did our brand shoot in Spain last year We flew the hair and makeup team from Portugal Jenny right? We've flown Jenny. Yeah, Jenny's amazing. We love her and her team And yeah, we've worked with Rui from love is my favorite Yeah And I get this is it right like they all everyone's recommending each other and so It's just a lovely place to work and lovely people to work with and I always tell the couples that I'm like if you want to work with the nicest people in Europe go to Portugal or Greece and the other thing about Portugal, I I don't know if you guys like this or not But I refer to it as Italy's little brother in a fond way like a good way It to me is a country that is just as beautiful as Italy But the prices in the wedding market are much less than Italy and I think it's because of supply and demand You know, everyone wants to have a wedding in Italy. It's very sexy to have a wedding in Italy But people are skipping literally right over Portugal to go straight for Italy or France and I'm like, hang on This is closer. This is cheaper. This is just as beautiful and the people are incredibly nice. So let's give this a shot because You could get so much more value for dollar here. So that's what I love I think maybe as far as the the cons or reasons why some couples don't book Portugal and they instead go to Italy is perhaps like the inventory of venues that are on the water Everybody wants to have a water venue and they want to have that compound style feel where there's Accommodations on site. There's a pool everyone staying there for three days and you can see the water and there's just so much more of those In Italy than there are in Portugal at least the places that we work with and I think because the market is not as Frequented as Italy that Italy just has more options, you know so like you can do different designs and more upgrades and there's more companies to choose from and things like that to do more You know interesting and creative things But I know that if I had a couple that wanted to do some wild shit they would go to Portugal and we would be able to work with all of those providers and figure it out because there's a Collaborative spirit and a really good example that I have when we were there a couple years ago doing the wedding in a marsh The weather was insane. It was like monsoon weather and the bride Was adamant that the ceremony happened outside and I wanted it outside too because I'm like this is gonna look good for my portfolio like I don't want it to have to go inside and she didn't like the room for the rain plan and we were just kind of In this holding pattern for like hours during the morning the florist is there Rui shot that wedding So he was here and then we had the videographer there the stationer there and we had this meeting It's pouring. We have this meeting underneath this covered terrace in the front of the venue and we're like, okay guys We're gonna do this ceremony right here under the covered terrace. It will monsoon Can we make it work and the poor florist had to set up this massive hoopah twice And she was like, yep, and Rui was like, let's do it. And everyone was like we're gonna do it amazing And and so it was just that type of collaborative spirit where I'm like you can do anything in Portugal because these vendors Will be there for you. So that's that's my soapbox. I'll get off it about about working in Portugal What about the things we do not do well, or at least we should aspire to do better Honestly other than like have have more venues, you know, but that the charm is that they're all hundred-plus years old So it's like they're already there. I think just having more more businesses open so that there's more options for couples and I think Personally working with Americans like we we've had such a great Experience, so there's not a lot that I would change and I don't want to ask you guys to change either because I think cultural Differences are so beautiful. And so yeah, like my job is to mitigate any any adverse reactions to cultural differences between the Portuguese vendor and the American couple But it's also like well, let's celebrate because we're doing something cool Like we this is harder to plan because it's in Portugal and it would be easier to plan if we were in New York But we're taking this leap of faith together. We're taking this risk together it's not going to be necessarily more difficult, but it will be different and You have to accept that you're not gonna have a hundred percent American wedding planning experience I'll get you pretty close if you work with me, but also like let's lean in because this is really cool Like these local vendors are gonna bring their own Touch to the planning process. And so yeah, there's not a lot that I would change at all everything you told you you said was just completely true because we have a we have a small country than Italy we have We have a great history, but it's just a smaller country with fewer people with fewer businesses. We don't have palaces Lying around we do have a lot of them, but they are not well treated so we can use them But it's just smaller and it is what it is. The economy is slower Some things won't change and that's cool. But the things we are really trying to understand and trying to be the the the force that forces a change Redundancy, but is the kind of the services and the things that our couples expect and the idea we have about American and the hustle culture as you say the idea we have we have is everything is really fast and really Timelined and the process is always really fluid and I know it's not a hundred percent true, but the culture I think is We should aspire to do that. And sometimes we feel that our Portuguese culture culture is more like It's good enough Do you agree with that? But do you agree with that or that doesn't bring you to You don't feel that is a problem per se. I don't think it's a problem for me but if it if a couple was planning a wedding without a wedding planner, then it could be a problem because Then they kind of especially if they're a type-a American then they could kind of feel like it's a bit of wishy-washy of like Okay, but what what time is salad being served? What time is dessert being served? What time does the dance floor open for example? And like when should we have our our florist picked out by when should we have our videographer picked out by and all of that? stuff and so I'm able to answer all those questions and It doesn't affect the way that I would work with with you and and and just other vendors in Portugal But if they didn't have the middleman, then yeah I think there is something to say about like maybe not meeting the American where they are but maybe taking a step closer and I Just think you guys are doing that already better than a lot of the countries that we work in So give yourself some credit there But yeah, there's always room to take a step closer to the American approach and I think that that just is as simple as saying this is what you can expect from me and exactly when you can expect it by and then actually delivering that in that time frame or before that because when an American gets told that they're gonna get something by a certain date and then they don't they Freak out So, I think that's the biggest part of it like setting expectations and then meeting or exceeding those expectations As far as when things happen. Yeah, it's the old saying about understanding over the liver. Just Tell what you can do when you can do and if you can do it better and more just or sooner just do it but exactly exactly and Americans I think are delighted when their vendors over deliver and they just weren't expecting it too And so there's a couple of things that we do like they don't know they're gonna get a welcome gift But when they sign on with us We we send them or when they sign on to when they book their venue just kind of in that period of time We'll send them a little welcome gift and a little note That's like we're so excited to be working with you and in a lot of times at the end We'll give like a little emergency kit with their name on it on the wedding day So these are things that they're like, oh, you know, how delightful and and also too We don't put any strict timelines on how long we're there for or what we do You know, we have a scope of services, but we we rarely say no unless it's Crossing an unhealthy boundary. We will rarely say no But we're there from the moment that they wake up to the moment that their head hits the pillow I'm not saying every wedding planner should do this, but one time I Unzipped the bride out of her dress as she's getting into bed with her husband. I was like, I'm gonna go That's awesome You should say I'm going in the photographer and the videographer, yeah They were long gone. This is like one o'clock two o'clock in the morning Yeah, so just kind of wrapping up I have a couple of questions As I told earlier the the podcast it's called wedding artists community So the idea is really to just bring the knowledge and everyone together so we are trying to being the the planner business in Portugal just Booming and really young because it's not more than 10 years as a market as a really Great group of people. It's really recent and we are just starting to To see some community between them Do you think or what is your experience in the US? do you think there's a community of planners in the US and what Do you feel might be the the journey that we are facing going forward Yeah, I think we have this phrase in the States. That's community over competition and In it's funny. It can be quite political though You know in certain pockets of the states in certain wedding markets that might you know, everyone says that but is that actually? Practiced you know, or is everyone kind of talking behind each other's back And that that happens and a lot of them are our women And so my observation of it is like kind of like a sister relation with like you love to hate her You know or you at the end of the day, you'll always you'll always be friends But you can kind of like rile each other up a little bit on the side. And so that's that's kind of what I've observed in the industry and There are some pockets that are truly just beautiful beautiful friendship I have so many friends that are wedding planners because like they get it, you know And I think that that makes the industry better because then we can have you know I just went to a Galentine's Day party that was put on by some lovely wedding planners a couple months ago And it was inspiring, you know, they they put together these little things to treat you with these little experiences showcasing local vendors and showcasing local businesses that you might want to refer to your clients and at the same time you get to have a tasty lunch and a little Dessert and you get to have you know a little favor to take home and everything. And so I love that I think that that's the key to bringing vendors together whether it's just wedding planners or other vendors It's opportunities for them to gather and I don't know what you guys have in Portugal as far as like networking groups or anything like that for the wedding industry But that that probably would be something that would definitely help foster that type of environment Because we're all still learning if you think you figured it out you are so naive I don't have all the answers I like to think I do sometimes but I know I don't and so I'm looking to people who are 10 years 20 years down the line and Being like is there something that I could be learning from them still and those opportunities don't happen unless I'm in their space and like Together and I don't love Instagram for that just because it's a it's not the most authentic environment all the time So I think in person Gatherings are our key to make each other better to be like, oh, how can we be like the better market than Italy? What I mean like that that's how those things happen in my opinion last month We had the first and we are Portuguese, of course, but we call it the planners retreat It was that 15 planners and some of them were already friends, but just a couple three or four maybe most of them didn't know each other and the vibe did The it was really amazing. And of course Some some of them probably might not like each other. It is what it is. It's life, but We we all felt like it that was a relief a great first step To to doing so but I think what you have in in adventures Advantage as being an older market is because you can look me as a photographer. I can look to 20 years. I have a lot of photographers for a few decades there. I might like I might don't like but planners in Portugal don't have Any planner with 30 years experience or 20 years for that matter? And I think it I think we are they are I'm just glad I'm in the same place as them but I think they are really building the I like to use the analogy of a locomotive the the thing that will just push the the train and it's I think it's really it's it's amazing and it's it's cool. So just to wrap up. I have a one big important question that is And K where is K going K and K Northrop events so I Have been focusing most of my efforts Business development wise on scaling right now and that took two different Forms, I thought I was scaling in a more traditional way a couple years ago And I actually pivoted to a very untraditional way of scaling recently So we're gonna keep on that trajectory but the original method or Strategy was, you know to bring in a bunch of that wedding planners on my team and do 30 40 weddings a year full service Just yesterday I list Listen to your interview in evolve evolve your port evolve your wedding business podcast and you were 2022 I think And you were talking about yeah. Yeah. No, don't do that. I mean do whatever you want that That to me was was the only way I saw saw to scale because what the issue was I was facing burnout. I was working harder not smarter and I I just kind of kind of like what I mentioned before like I wasn't thinking big enough you know and when I manifest now I think okay I think this is what I want but this or something better is is my mantra now because if I knew what I knew then when I was doing that interview oh my god I couldn't perceive what I would do next and it was so much better so I kind of left that behind because I regardless I wanted to scale I didn't want to be traveling as much the traveling got really hard on my body and I would always come back sick I came back from Italy Italy wedding one time ended up in the hospital and so I was like I can't keep doing this you know I want to be a mom someday too and like I just can't be pulling these hours and putting this stress on my body to make that happen and so a couple years ago I had this epiphany of how to scale and I keep I kept the full service side of my business I don't directly plan those weddings anymore my team does it and my team is incredible and they've got it and so I focus now on this other side of the business that's specifically for the couples that want to limit the amount of money that they're spending on wedding planning but desperately need my help so it's a win-win I can scale and they can spend less to tap into my expertise and so it's basically a consulting side of the business where I have a whole series a whole roadmap and blueprint of exactly how to plan a destination wedding in Europe specifically a multi-day intimate destination wedding it's specifically designed for US couples so it helps them through those four barriers it's all delivered by me and they get all of my venues all of my vendors and all that stuff and then I host one weekly call where I answer any of their questions and then they're all in my weekly they're on my support group on Facebook so then we're in there answering their questions and and it's working like they they start they follow my process they reach out to my people they book their venues they have their weddings it goes great and they spent a tenth of what they would have on a full service traditional package so that is no extra work for me and and it scales so I'm pouring gasoline on that fire right now that's what's next in that interview you were talking about some some power planning sessions did was that the tiny seed that turned into this yeah I used to do I used to do the power planning sessions I think lifetime I've done over a hundred power planning sessions which are basically two-hour sessions with couples where we go through their deep-rooted values and priorities we do their budgets we put together like their whole roadmap of what they're supposed to do I took that concept and instead of doing that one-on-one with couples I put it into this program so now they're guiding themselves through the power planning session getting the same outcome but I'm not meeting one-on-one with them anymore almost infinitely scalable that's exactly yeah the power planning sessions were exhausting it's it's two hours of thinking and I'm like I can do this in a better way so yeah the whole mantra is we're working smart or not harder this year I love business and I really love part of the culture of American cultural business I think sometimes you can overdo it well that usually turns everything around and builds great things but usually people get burned so I think it's so much but I really love that culture culture and when I when I hear you talking it's really inspiring because sometimes we have completely the opposite culture you have a saying in Italy dolce ferniente the sweet of sweetness of doing nothing we don't have that particular saying but in Portugal you probably noticed we have a lot of we spend a lot of time in coffee taking coffee and just drinking just living which I love but I think we do it a little bit too much so I can we can go a little bit more on to the business side and especially in this in this industry in weddings because sometimes we lose ourselves on the artist part which is amazing and important some we lose a bit too much on the emotional part because this is an amazing day for our couples and blah blah blah which is also also true but it's a business we have to make money we have to earn a living and not just survive we should be thriving and it's inspired to to listening to you saying all those things and giving ideas and it's just inspiring so okay thank you so much for being here thank you I appreciate that I think that that's the beauty of of having international connection we each took something from each other you know like pulling a little bit from the American hustle but not too far and pulling a little bit from that like more slow living present grounded living that Europeans really have latched on to and understand that Americans don't quite get and there is a perfect balance between the two of those and that comes out when we work together so that's the beauty of it it is okay this was amazing and I'm really looking forward to our glass of rosé together probably probably in the river something like that yeah yeah I'll meet you at six senses yeah well let's just settle on the other day and meet yeah absolutely this was just amazing thank you for having me I appreciate it